Rick, Jim and Jason:

This is all great info. I just ordered a bunch of books about Imagism and
Pound on inter-library loan. Will add Rick's suggested work.

The urban v. rural looms large with both Frost and Cummings. My program is
American & New England Studies, so we read a lot and discuss the idea of
"imagining" and/or "creating" things and ideas that have become icons for
New England, such as foliage and tourism and the "New England Village."

While reading about the Colonial Revival, I had the idea that since Frost's
popularity began with his audience's love for the "Yankee farmer poet"
persona they thought he was in A Boy's Will and North of Boston, he actively
maintained that persona throughout his career. Essentially, he "worked" that
ten years in Derry, NH as a chicken farmer/teacher/poet for the next 40 +
years of his life. As Parini says in Some Necessary Angels, Frost's love for
the limelight did in his poetry in the end. The Colonial Revival coincides
with the years of Frost's upbringing -- he was much more an urban poet than
he cared to admit, having lived first in San Francisco, then the mill city
of Lawrence, MA. But in order to keep his "Yankee" identity, he feigned to
reject modernism by sticking to the pastoral. Yet he has much to say that is
universal, without referring to the prostitutes, "diss-ing" the Cambridge
ladies' furnished souls or describing his sex life, as Cummings did. The
stark NH country farmers and people he portrays in North of Boston, ekeing
out a living in depression time, when many were literally abandoning their
farms and heading to the Midwest where the soil was better, shows a
bleakness that is as urban as the Bowery.

Cummings, on the other hand, had much more of an rural connection than
people think. He was raised in Cambridge, but at a time (turn of the
century) when his neighborhood had a rural feel. His family had summer
places in NH where they spent much time during C's childhood, and later
where C returned every summer until his death in 1962. He was also a
painter, whose work spans his entire life and encompasses scenes of Paris
and the beauty of his White Mountain retreat. He chose to live for 44 years
in Greenwich Village, so his city connection is a much bigger part of his
poetry, and that which I think the "younger" generation identify him with.

Anyway, I'm blathering, but I appreciate all the comments.

Kate
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Seddon" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: Imagism and Joyce


> Kate:
>
> With the two set as discussion points, e. e. cummings seems the more
> mainline modern to me.  His poetry, even that of the country,  seems
urban.
> Frost seems throw-back pastoral; almost Georgian.  Much of Frost's
Imagery,
> like some of H.D., is of the countryside.  Of course as someone has said
the
> Pastoral is about the primitive urges of the Urban so maybe Frost is
> primitive modern?  :>)  In all seriousness I would suppose that a paper
> could be developed along the lines of Frost detailing, through
Pastoralism,
> a rejection of the decayed modern Urb.  (Maybe it has already been done)
> Pound, who relished the Urb, would not probably agree but maybe Eliot
would.
>
> Marianne Moore's images (note: little "i")  of animals, she is an
> objectivist like Robert Creeley not a strict Imagist, might be profitable.
> You might also look at the "Amygism" of Amy Lowell, what Pound thought
> Imagism gone astray,  in order to see vitiation of the idea.
>
> Are you interested in Imagism or Vorticism?  For an excellent discussion
of
> the Ideogramic method, which necessarily has a lot of good info on
Imagism,
> see,  _Ideogram, History of a Poetic Method_ by Laszlo K. Gefin.  Pound's
> work on the Fenolosa papers would probably be of interest also.
>
> Be sure to keep your big "I" Images seperate from your little "i" images.
>
> I don't think the ex-pat idea would work well.  William Carlos Williams
and
> Richard Aldington would be hard to work into such a scheme.
>
> Rick Seddon
> McIntosh, NM, USA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kate Cone" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 5:48 AM
> Subject: Re: Imagism and Joyce
>
>
> > Tim:
> >
> > I've been reading C's poetry and bio's for over 30 years. In fact, as a
> > result of my research and inquiries to Jay Parini at Middlebury, a Frost
> > scholar and biographer, I've been asked to write the Cummings article
for
> > the Oxford Encyclopedia of American Literature, which Parini is editing.
> > (wheeee!!!)
> >
> > Frost I knew as all American students do -- the anthologized poems. I
> loved
> > the imagery, but didn't "get" how deep they were then. But one little
poem
> > hit me a different way:
> >
> > The Secret Sits
> >
> > We dance 'round a ring and suppose.
> > The secret sits in the middle and knows.
> >
> > Frost
> >
> > ****
> >
> > seeker of truth
> >
> > follow no path
> > all paths lead where
> >
> > truth is here
> >
> > Cummings
> >
> > ****
> >
> > At first I thought of this type of poem as having a Zen influence, but
on
> > further investigation I learned that both C and F were tremendously
> > influenced by Emerson, whose essay "Circles" pretty much pegs the notion
> of
> > coming back: "I keep and pass and turn again." (Brahma).
> >
> > Anyway, the nature poetry of C and F are the most alike in that regard.
> > Where Pound comes in: he was among some other influential poets met in
> > England and was instrumental in getting Frost's first two books
> > well-reviewed in England, essentially "making" Frost the first and
perhaps
> > only best-selling American poet of the 20th century. As a young poet at
> > Harvard, Cummings' notebooks show a keen interest in being part of the
> > imagist movement.
> >
> > I guess what I'm asking for are any thoughts at all about Pound's
> influence
> > and/or dealings with either Frost or Cummings. And with regard to Mr.
> > Savage's comment about Frost's poor treatment of Pound -- if you could
> > elaborate further on that/those incident/s, it would give me more
> insight --
> > was Frost abandoning a poet who helped  him in order to "lay low" from
> > controversy? This will further my theory that Frost "invented" himself
as
> a
> > Yankee farmer poet and didn't want to rock any boat by being involved
> > (publicly) in the politics of the day. Cummings was much more "in your
> > face."
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Kate
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tim Romano" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 6:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: Imagism and Joyce
> >
> >
> > > Kate,
> > > What do you think their work has in common? I see no similarity,
though
> I
> > > must admit that I don't know cummings's work inside and out.
> > > Tim Romano
> > >
> > > Kate Cone wrote:
> > >
> > > >I am writing my masters thesis on how E.E. Cummings and Robert
Frost's
> > > >poetry are related.
> > >
> >
>