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Robert Hughes and Margaret Fisher <[log in to unmask]>
Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:49:35 -0500
text/plain (149 lines)
Hey there, I made an error re Otto Bird and Dino del Garbo's date.
Only Pound gives the two possible dates for the writing of the commentary on Cavalcanti's canzone d'amore.  No explanation why he says "1302 or 1320" - I would hope it's not because his own notes were too difficult to read or incomplete.  The essay, "Cavalcanti," sought a degree of meticulousness in its own commentary on the canzone.  Could Pound have been too casual in one place and not in another?  Kenner in Historical Fictions wrote that one should take Pound at face value.  Do others have a kind of guiding perspective in these matters?
Many thanks,
Margaret Fisher
University of California, Berkeley
(Dept. of Dramatic Art and Dance)
> There are 4 messages totalling 131 lines in this issue.
> Topics of the day:
>   1. Pound, Williams, Eliot
>   2. Duchamp?
>   3. Pound and Cavalcanti
>   4. Dino del Garbo
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 2000 10:05:48 GMT
> From:    Richard Edwards <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Pound, Williams, Eliot
> Thanks for the link to the Paintings and Poems site.
> I always think Auden's line "About suffering they were never wrong, the Old
> Masters" is one of his most dishonest - an abuse of the supposed "poetic
> licence" to tell "beautiful lies" which was, I'm afraid, rather typical of
> him. When Pound writes, for example, "Love gone as lightning and then for
> 5000 years almost nothing", what he says may not be literally true, but at
> least he has or seems to have a discernable rhetorical purpose (I say it is
> discernable - I'm not sure I have discerned it!). Auden on the other hand
> seems to tell fibs of this sort compulsively.
> A much better "beautiful lie" of Auden's is the line from "The Shield of
> Achilles": "They died as men before their bodies died". The strength of this
> line comes from its being both appallingly true (the victims have lost all
> of their dignity and pride by the time they are led out in front of the
> firing squad) and appallingly untrue (the victims are still capable of fear,
> they are still loved and their fate can still inspire pity and terror).
> Richard Edwards
> >From: Jonathan Morse <[log in to unmask]>
> >Reply-To: Ezra Pound discussion list of the University of Maine
> >  <[log in to unmask]>
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: Pound, Williams, Eliot
> >Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 11:51:18 -1000
> >
> >At 08:08 PM 3/6/00 -0500, Lucas Klein wrote:
> > >is there anything specific (as in, more than just a general
> > >sense I get from reading Pound's poetry--Cantos or otherwise) I can
> > >mention to argue that Pound's (and Eliot's) writings are more than
> > >overeducated and self-impressed mental gymnastics but instead are
> > >constituted of vibrant and emotional language that, as part of but not
> > >solely existent to the technique, re-INVIGORATES the classics and gives
> > >new life to literary tradition?
> >
> >In my experience, classes take wonderfully to "Tradition and the Individual
> >Talent" and "_Ulysses_, Order, and Myth." Terry Eagleton has scored some
> >points against Eliot, of course. Yes, Professor Eagleton, you're right to
> >wonder: if "the main current . . . does not at all flow invariably through
> >the most distinguished reputations," then what IS "the main current"?
> >Still, I'd say Eliot stands a better chance than Eagleton of being read by
> >your grandchildren.
> >
> >And while we're on the topic of Williams: Emory University's English
> >department has a very nice FTP directory of modern poems about paintings,
> >illustrated with the paintings. Williams and Auden are there, of course,
> >plus some less familiar authors. One of those regards Brueghel's "The
> >Harvest" as a piece of gay porn. The URL is
> >
> >http://www.emory.edu/ENGLISH/Paintings&Poems
> >
> >Jonathan Morse
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> ------------------------------
> Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 2000 08:51:12 -0500
> From:    Catherine Paul <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Duchamp?
> Duchamp doesn't seem to be one of the artists that Pound commented on much:
> there's one reference to him in Harriet Zinnes' *Ezra Pound and the Visual
> Arts* (ND 1980), a "Paris Letter" from 1923 where Pound remarks on the
> requirement of constant innovation in Duchamp's work.
> At 04:10 PM 3/7/2000 -0500, you wrote:
> >Does Pound make any references to Marcel Duchamp that anyone on this
> >list is aware of .... the question comes to me by way of the discussion
> >contrasting Pound, Williams, etc.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Catherine E. Paul               [log in to unmask]
> Assistant Professor
> Clemson University              864 / 656-5413
> Department of English   FAX: 864 / 656-1345
> College of Architecture, Arts & Humanities
> 708 Strode Tower
> Box 340523
> Clemson, SC 29634-0523
> ------------------------------
> Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 2000 09:07:36 -0500
> From:    "Jonathan P. Gill" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Pound and Cavalcanti
> Let's not forget that "dross" takes us back to Homer Pound's work assaying
> silver and gold in the Philadelphia Mint.  Ezra recalled the different
> processes with remarkable precision in print and out-loud many times,
> including in the Donald Hall interview (a history of the Mint from the
> time of Homer's employment details the procedures and mentions Homer as
> well).
> Anyone who orders my dissertation should beware that I got this wrong when
> I said Pound got it wrong.  The crucible used in the gold refining process
> used by Homer does indeed absorb impurities, so that the pure gold does
> indeed remain.
> Jonathan Gill
> Columbia University
> ------------------------------
> Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:46:04 -0500
> From:    Robert Hughes and Margaret Fisher <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Dino del Garbo
> I'm so glad to hear from the Pound list again.  Thanks for the recent var=
> iety from Cavalcanti to Duchamp.
> I wonder if anyone can help me with the date of Dino Del Garbo's commenta=
> ry on the Donna mi prega?  Otto Bird gives 1302.  Pound in his essay give=
> s "1302 or 1320". Thanks very much, Margaret Fisher
> ------------------------------
> End of EPOUND-L Digest - 7 Mar 2000 to 8 Mar 2000 (#2000-54)
> ************************************************************