Is the quote from Pound?

> From: Alphaville <[log in to unmask]>
> Reply-To: - Ezra Pound discussion list of the University of Maine
> <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:42:23 -0500
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: ALA panels, etc.
> 
> Lose face? Who ever had 'face'? "In a regime of grand larceny, petty
> larceny ranks as conformity."
> 
> I wish it were mere "bungling." Following the Kivunim plan the
> 'bungling' is just a smokesceen for the successful fragmentation of
> Iraq--- a situation that is now pretty much a done deal. But the
> 
> Kivunim plan is a security plan. The PNAC plan for example is a strategic plan
> in the classic capitalist sense despite its Were-Wolfowitzian regional
> democratization horseshit---oil, natural gas and water easily accesible to
> western markets through a puppet state. Its a "comprehensive" version of the
> old CIA 'strongman' approach e.g. the U.S.'s early support for the Baathists
> and by extension Saddam---an oil grab disquised as a theoretical method for
> creating a more durable and oppressive security situation and one that
> requires less direct monitoring and funding. Aspects of the American neo-con
> plan are diametrically opposed to Israeli 'machinations' for example a Shi'ite
> majority in the South absorbed by religious and cultural affiliation into Iran
> and hostile to the U.S. and an independent Kurdestan that threatens eastern
> Turkey. However, having said that, the carpet bombing of western Iraq along
> the Syrian border is being done not to root out Iraqi nationalists and insur!
> gents, but to secure pipeline routes along the Syrian border that originate in
> the newly minted de facto Kurdestan, through Jordan into Israel.  So one could
> say that elements of the Kivunim plan have been adapted to current
> circumstances. It certainly was discussed among the principles.
> 
> But back to Pound. Sorry. Ez sez hasn't been much on my mind lately. CP
> 
> Charles Moyer wrote:
> 
>> Carlo,
>> Yes, it ain't hard these days to loose face with the guvment esp. if you
>> happen to notice its "bungling" in Iraq is resulting in exactly what was
>> machinated in the 1982 Kivunim plan.
>> That said I'll raise my libertarian glass to Vermont's secession.
>> 
>> Charlie
>> 
>> "The state is a clever institution for protecting individuals from one
>> another; if one goes too far in ennobling it, the individual is ultimately
>> weakened by it, even dissolved - and thus the original purpose of the state
>> is most thoroughly thwarted." -NIETZCHE
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> From: Alphaville <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Reply-To: - Ezra Pound discussion list of the University of Maine
>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 10:31:56 -0500
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: FW: ALA panels, etc.
>>> 
>>> Charlie,
>>> 
>>> I was chatting with a couple of  wonks from Langley over lattes at
>>> Pentagon City other day and one made mention that a Navy Gulf Stream V
>>> used for "renditions" would be available the week of the ALA conference.
>>> Maybe I could put in a word for you, your Leer jet being grounded and
>>> all. Of course, they can't guarantee destination or hotel accomodations.
>>> Apparently, more often than not what you find on your pillow rather than
>>> a mint are pieces of your own face.  CP
>>> P.S. Thanks for the enlightening entries.
>>> 
>>> Charles Moyer wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> ----------
>>>> From: Charles Moyer <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 06:59:34 -0500
>>>> To: - Ezra Pound discussion list of the University of Maine
>>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Subject: ALA panels, etc.
>>>> 
>>>> Bob and potential panelers,
>>>> I appreciate the invitation to present a paper in SF, but unfortunately
>>>> May will be the month that my Leer jet will be in for repairs. So I will
>>>> have to offer the following by way of this poor list in hopes that it may
>>>> brighten the affair in some remote way.
>>>> 
>>>> In further consideration of the Pound and Islam discussion-
>>>> "Let us search for Mr. Upward's dangerous and heretical doctrines." -Pound
>>>> and
>>>> "Every high creator in Western history has in reality aimed, from first to
>>>> last, at something which only the few could comprehend." -Spengler
>>>> 
>>>> In his Table I. "Contemporary Spiritual Epochs" Spengler puts Avicenna
>>>> in the period of "Autumn", particularly among "the Great Conclusive
>>>> systems". To be more specific this autumn represents the "intelligence of
>>>> the City. Zenith of strict intellectual creativeness." What follows is
>>>> "Winter (Dawn of Megalopolitan Civilization. Extinction of spiritual
>>>> creative force. Life itself becomes problematical. Ethical practical
>>>> tendencies of an irreligious and unmetaphysical cosmopolitanism) In terms
>>>> of
>>>> Islam = practical fatalism after 1000" AD - and what comes out of it
>>>> nowadays?
>>>> Pound is a Spengler Faustian. He displays the "symbolic infinity"
>>>> expressed by the Faustian world-feeling, "the mechanical and extensional
>>>> re-ideation of the idea of immortality and world-soul" - Pound's
>>>> "conspiracy
>>>> of intelligence outlasts the hash of the political map" and, one may add,
>>>> the ravages of the ages. Kung and Athena can and do enter this stage set by
>>>> the Cantos one now then another among many to visit the shadow-boxing sage
>>>> in his Pisan cage. In the parlance of Spengler the "Olympian college is
>>>> historyless, it knows no becoming, no epochal moments, no aim. But the
>>>> passionate thrust into distance is Faustian."
>>>> And Pound is such a Faustian heretic. But then all Fausts are heretics.
>>>> However, all heretics are not Fausts. Is the question's stakes now raised
>>>> from Islam and salvation promising religion to one of immortality of
>>>> another
>>>> brand? Or was the question always not about Islam and Pound but Aristotle
>>>> and his followers and Pound's perception of them?
>>>> 
>>>> Charlie
>>>> 
>>>> "'Tis the white stag, Fame, we're a-hunting,
>>>> Bid the world's hounds come to horn!"
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> From: Robert Kibler <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Reply-To: - Ezra Pound discussion list of the University of Maine
>>>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 13:10:05 -0600
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Subject: Re: Pound panel(s) at the ALA?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think you do go straight to the heart of the matter with this question,
>>>>> and
>>>>> I do think Pound reconciles his pragmatism with his 'goddess' tendency in
>>>>> identifiable if changing ways in the cantos, on his way to paradise. I
>>>>> guess
>>>>> I
>>>>> am looking at those points or modes of reconciliation.
>>>>> And of the two then, Avicenna is more a Dante type, while Averroes,
>>>>> condemned
>>>>> somewhere along the line by everyone, seems more in line with a Pound, as
>>>>> before him, a Cavalcanti.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I swear, there are enough people talking about Pound and Islam here that
>>>>> we
>>>>> should be able to put together a panel session offering three worthy
>>>>> perspectives. If so, can some shoot me or Burt Hatlen or Alec Marsh a
>>>>> title
>>>>> and an abstract for ALA, so that we can make a case for this general
>>>>> topic?
>>>>> We
>>>>> need titles, leastways, by 20 January, as I understand it. Thanks in
>>>>> general,
>>>>> Charles, and thanks in particular for offering a clarifying question about
>>>>> Pound. .
>>>>> As for dualism, dualist religions, philosophies, life approaches, et
>>>>> cetera--aven't these often worked their separate ways--such as the
>>>>> Eleusianian
>>>>> Mysteries--understood one way by the true believers, and another by the
>>>>> politicians and group leaders who saw something operating behind the
>>>>> spectacle
>>>>> rather than simply in it?  Averroes has a great quote regarding the
>>>>> multiple
>>>>> layers of reality or perception/understanding of reality operating among
>>>>> people, but as it is, I have to install a light fixture and get to the gym
>>>>> before the Washington Redskins take the field.
>>>>> So please, all of you out there in cyberspace, consider offering a paper
>>>>> on
>>>>> Pound and Islam at ALA. I can do something. Are there two others out there
>>>>> willing to do so? Robert K
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> The person of excellence understands what is moral.
>>>>> The petty person understands what is profitable.
>>>>> "Analects" IV.16, Confucius
>>>>> 
>>>>> Robert E. Kibler, Ph.D.
>>>>> English and Humanities
>>>>> Director, Northern Plains Writing Project
>>>>> 229 Hartnett Hall West
>>>>> Minot State University
>>>>> 500 University Avenue West
>>>>> Minot, North Dakota 58701
>>>>> telephone: 701 858 3876
>>>>> e-mail: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> fax: 701 858 3894
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>> 
>>