Is the quote from Pound? > From: Alphaville <[log in to unmask]> > Reply-To: - Ezra Pound discussion list of the University of Maine > <[log in to unmask]> > Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:42:23 -0500 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: ALA panels, etc. > > Lose face? Who ever had 'face'? "In a regime of grand larceny, petty > larceny ranks as conformity." > > I wish it were mere "bungling." Following the Kivunim plan the > 'bungling' is just a smokesceen for the successful fragmentation of > Iraq--- a situation that is now pretty much a done deal. But the > > Kivunim plan is a security plan. The PNAC plan for example is a strategic plan > in the classic capitalist sense despite its Were-Wolfowitzian regional > democratization horseshit---oil, natural gas and water easily accesible to > western markets through a puppet state. Its a "comprehensive" version of the > old CIA 'strongman' approach e.g. the U.S.'s early support for the Baathists > and by extension Saddam---an oil grab disquised as a theoretical method for > creating a more durable and oppressive security situation and one that > requires less direct monitoring and funding. Aspects of the American neo-con > plan are diametrically opposed to Israeli 'machinations' for example a Shi'ite > majority in the South absorbed by religious and cultural affiliation into Iran > and hostile to the U.S. and an independent Kurdestan that threatens eastern > Turkey. However, having said that, the carpet bombing of western Iraq along > the Syrian border is being done not to root out Iraqi nationalists and insur! > gents, but to secure pipeline routes along the Syrian border that originate in > the newly minted de facto Kurdestan, through Jordan into Israel. So one could > say that elements of the Kivunim plan have been adapted to current > circumstances. It certainly was discussed among the principles. > > But back to Pound. Sorry. Ez sez hasn't been much on my mind lately. CP > > Charles Moyer wrote: > >> Carlo, >> Yes, it ain't hard these days to loose face with the guvment esp. if you >> happen to notice its "bungling" in Iraq is resulting in exactly what was >> machinated in the 1982 Kivunim plan. >> That said I'll raise my libertarian glass to Vermont's secession. >> >> Charlie >> >> "The state is a clever institution for protecting individuals from one >> another; if one goes too far in ennobling it, the individual is ultimately >> weakened by it, even dissolved - and thus the original purpose of the state >> is most thoroughly thwarted." -NIETZCHE >> >> >> >>> From: Alphaville <[log in to unmask]> >>> Reply-To: - Ezra Pound discussion list of the University of Maine >>> <[log in to unmask]> >>> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 10:31:56 -0500 >>> To: [log in to unmask] >>> Subject: Re: FW: ALA panels, etc. >>> >>> Charlie, >>> >>> I was chatting with a couple of wonks from Langley over lattes at >>> Pentagon City other day and one made mention that a Navy Gulf Stream V >>> used for "renditions" would be available the week of the ALA conference. >>> Maybe I could put in a word for you, your Leer jet being grounded and >>> all. Of course, they can't guarantee destination or hotel accomodations. >>> Apparently, more often than not what you find on your pillow rather than >>> a mint are pieces of your own face. CP >>> P.S. Thanks for the enlightening entries. >>> >>> Charles Moyer wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> ---------- >>>> From: Charles Moyer <[log in to unmask]> >>>> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 06:59:34 -0500 >>>> To: - Ezra Pound discussion list of the University of Maine >>>> <[log in to unmask]> >>>> Subject: ALA panels, etc. >>>> >>>> Bob and potential panelers, >>>> I appreciate the invitation to present a paper in SF, but unfortunately >>>> May will be the month that my Leer jet will be in for repairs. So I will >>>> have to offer the following by way of this poor list in hopes that it may >>>> brighten the affair in some remote way. >>>> >>>> In further consideration of the Pound and Islam discussion- >>>> "Let us search for Mr. Upward's dangerous and heretical doctrines." -Pound >>>> and >>>> "Every high creator in Western history has in reality aimed, from first to >>>> last, at something which only the few could comprehend." -Spengler >>>> >>>> In his Table I. "Contemporary Spiritual Epochs" Spengler puts Avicenna >>>> in the period of "Autumn", particularly among "the Great Conclusive >>>> systems". To be more specific this autumn represents the "intelligence of >>>> the City. Zenith of strict intellectual creativeness." What follows is >>>> "Winter (Dawn of Megalopolitan Civilization. Extinction of spiritual >>>> creative force. Life itself becomes problematical. Ethical practical >>>> tendencies of an irreligious and unmetaphysical cosmopolitanism) In terms >>>> of >>>> Islam = practical fatalism after 1000" AD - and what comes out of it >>>> nowadays? >>>> Pound is a Spengler Faustian. He displays the "symbolic infinity" >>>> expressed by the Faustian world-feeling, "the mechanical and extensional >>>> re-ideation of the idea of immortality and world-soul" - Pound's >>>> "conspiracy >>>> of intelligence outlasts the hash of the political map" and, one may add, >>>> the ravages of the ages. Kung and Athena can and do enter this stage set by >>>> the Cantos one now then another among many to visit the shadow-boxing sage >>>> in his Pisan cage. In the parlance of Spengler the "Olympian college is >>>> historyless, it knows no becoming, no epochal moments, no aim. But the >>>> passionate thrust into distance is Faustian." >>>> And Pound is such a Faustian heretic. But then all Fausts are heretics. >>>> However, all heretics are not Fausts. Is the question's stakes now raised >>>> from Islam and salvation promising religion to one of immortality of >>>> another >>>> brand? Or was the question always not about Islam and Pound but Aristotle >>>> and his followers and Pound's perception of them? >>>> >>>> Charlie >>>> >>>> "'Tis the white stag, Fame, we're a-hunting, >>>> Bid the world's hounds come to horn!" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> From: Robert Kibler <[log in to unmask]> >>>>> Reply-To: - Ezra Pound discussion list of the University of Maine >>>>> <[log in to unmask]> >>>>> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 13:10:05 -0600 >>>>> To: [log in to unmask] >>>>> Subject: Re: Pound panel(s) at the ALA? >>>>> >>>>> I think you do go straight to the heart of the matter with this question, >>>>> and >>>>> I do think Pound reconciles his pragmatism with his 'goddess' tendency in >>>>> identifiable if changing ways in the cantos, on his way to paradise. I >>>>> guess >>>>> I >>>>> am looking at those points or modes of reconciliation. >>>>> And of the two then, Avicenna is more a Dante type, while Averroes, >>>>> condemned >>>>> somewhere along the line by everyone, seems more in line with a Pound, as >>>>> before him, a Cavalcanti. >>>>> >>>>> I swear, there are enough people talking about Pound and Islam here that >>>>> we >>>>> should be able to put together a panel session offering three worthy >>>>> perspectives. If so, can some shoot me or Burt Hatlen or Alec Marsh a >>>>> title >>>>> and an abstract for ALA, so that we can make a case for this general >>>>> topic? >>>>> We >>>>> need titles, leastways, by 20 January, as I understand it. Thanks in >>>>> general, >>>>> Charles, and thanks in particular for offering a clarifying question about >>>>> Pound. . >>>>> As for dualism, dualist religions, philosophies, life approaches, et >>>>> cetera--aven't these often worked their separate ways--such as the >>>>> Eleusianian >>>>> Mysteries--understood one way by the true believers, and another by the >>>>> politicians and group leaders who saw something operating behind the >>>>> spectacle >>>>> rather than simply in it? Averroes has a great quote regarding the >>>>> multiple >>>>> layers of reality or perception/understanding of reality operating among >>>>> people, but as it is, I have to install a light fixture and get to the gym >>>>> before the Washington Redskins take the field. >>>>> So please, all of you out there in cyberspace, consider offering a paper >>>>> on >>>>> Pound and Islam at ALA. I can do something. Are there two others out there >>>>> willing to do so? Robert K >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The person of excellence understands what is moral. >>>>> The petty person understands what is profitable. >>>>> "Analects" IV.16, Confucius >>>>> >>>>> Robert E. Kibler, Ph.D. >>>>> English and Humanities >>>>> Director, Northern Plains Writing Project >>>>> 229 Hartnett Hall West >>>>> Minot State University >>>>> 500 University Avenue West >>>>> Minot, North Dakota 58701 >>>>> telephone: 701 858 3876 >>>>> e-mail: [log in to unmask] >>>>> fax: 701 858 3894 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >>