> China gave us tea, silk, china, Confucius, and
> Lao Tzu. We were longer in getting at the latter. The West gave China the
> porcelain pan, opium, cotton, missionaries, Marx, and finally science.

Charles:

There were a few great scientists among the first Italian missionaries. They
brought science, mathematics and astronomy in particular, to China much
earlier than opium.

The brightest German scientist, Lebniz, learned a lot from China.  Modern
Quantum Theory founders, including Niels Bohr, believed that the philosophy
of the theory (of the nature) belongs to Lao Tze.


Peter Bi
www.card4you.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "charles moyer" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 6:43 AM
Subject: Destiny and fallen demigods


> Wei,
>     Destiny (Spengler's favorite goddess) has broken a path for
> civilizations to follow which has lead them to each other in time, and
when
> they meet if they do not collide head on in conflict over their distrusts
of
> each other then they trade. They trade for the things which they do not
have
> but think they want or need. China gave us tea, silk, china, Confucius,
and
> Lao Tzu. We were longer in getting at the latter. The West gave China the
> porcelain pan, opium, cotton, missionaries, Marx, and finally science. It
> was longer for them to master the latter. To what destiny this road takes
us
> remains to be seen, but we continue to learn from each other, and
sometimes
> we use what we get form the other in an entirely different way.
>     Your comment concerning your lack of "sensitivity to large numbers of
> people on this list who do derive great spiritual sustenance from Pound"
is
> noted and perhaps not so much your fault afterall as that inferred
> condemnation which is read into your analysis. If China has been hamstrung
> by Confucian tradition, the West has the serious problem of "Faustophobia"
> brought on by an overly patriarchal, guilt-ridden conscience troubled by
the
> pursuit of the forbidden friuit of knowledge, a belief that we are being
> tempted by the Fallen Angel of hubris, and a "stupid salvation mechanism"
> i.e. obedience to Jawway =reward and disobedience = punishment. Freud
> examined this and elaborated on it. Elaine Pagels has exposed this Satan
as
> the Bogey Man he is. Pound called it "god-blithering tosh". And the quoted
> formula above was offered by our old friend, Nietzsche. (Incidently, Pound
> called him an "ill-balanced hysterical teuto-pollack" - No one escaped his
> caustic tongue). But didn't Marlowe say, "I'll burn my books"?  - very
> important words in English literature.
>     All of this brings me to comment on your stated choice of music as an
> uplifter  of the soul. I also love the Beethoven Quartets esp. the later
> ones. They seem to have a depth and confidence that simplifies and
distills
> even the most essential. And of Mozart operas "The Magic Flute" is my
> favorite. Someone could make a comparison with Papageno, lock on mouth,to
> Pound's Ouan Jin's mouth being erased in the Pisan Cantos , both being a
> necessary condition to save the life of the written text or word. Or as
> Rabate says in his book, "The per-fection of the Word requires the
> disappearance of the subject who utters it." p.148. In other words the
poet
> as demi-god must save the Word by his own self-sacrifice. "tempus
tacendi"?
> He may have been anticipating his defense in court also.
>     But I would bet "Don Giovanni" is your favorite. Am I right? I must
> relate a story about a performance of this opera. As you know the rake
must
> atone in the end. So in the last scene he descends into hell. At this
> particular performance the elevator platform stuck at the point when he
was
> only half-way down leaving his head and upper torso still revealed. So he
> was brought up again and the descent was reattempted only to fail once
> again.Whereupon a member of the audience exclaimed for all to hear, "How
> wonderful, Hell is full."
>     My comment, however had I been there, would have been, "He must be
> standing on Ezra Pound's shoulders." It would have bombed, but one or two
> may have laughed.
>
> Salubriously,
> CDM