Mr. Wagner condemn EP without doubt  from the Olympus, where he's sitting among
the gods. I know Richard Wagner but not Bill Wagner. Which kind of dog are you.?
 
Adolfo Loss
 
Bill Wagner wrote:
 
> Mark....
>
> "Elite" & "elitist" are words that carry many different meanings to many
> different people, ranging from respect to contempt.  "Snobbery" is clearly
> pejorative.   It was not my intention to denigrate anyone who loves poetry
> and poets, obscure or famous.  The same goes for anyone who devotes his or
> her life to scholarship, teaching, or education. It was not my intention to
> disparage anyone who reads, enjoys, studies or discusses any subject no
> matter how esoteric or obscure.
>
> But we are talking about EP here, a poet who chose to be a puppet lapdog for
> a Fascist dictator in part because the president of the United States didn't
> drop the concerns of state to hear his (EP's) grandiose political rantings.
> The fact that he picked up a castle in the bargain might also be interpreted
> as elitist, might it not?
>
> Pound's choice to write in many languages - some of them moribund if not
> deceased - fits into the "elite snobbery" category in my opinion.  Wasn't
> one of Dante's great contributions writing in common language rather than
> Latin, an archaic language (even then) kept alive for ceremony and - dare I
> use the word again - snobbery?
>
> If greatness in poetry is measured by counting the number of obscure
> literary references & linguistic excursions per page, then EP is clearly the
> greatest poet of our times.  A desire to unravel or understand some of those
> mysteries drew me to this list.  But it was always my belief that Pound's
> stature was as much for his theories, editing skills and cultivation of
> other talents as for his poetry.
>
> Pound is also great because his writings challenge readers to look into
> other cultures, other ages, other ideas. This leads to many areas where most
> people will not have the time to go.  That's where a small group of devotees
> can illuminate the darker corners for those who lack the time or temperament
> for serious study.  That group could be considered elite with no pejorative
> implication to the word.  Members of this list fall into that category.
>
> But it seemed to me that there was considerable "snobbery" in the response
> to See's article.  Snobbery in the "who does she think she is" attitude
> exhibited, and in comments about the Washington Post &  journalists in
> general.   I've done a lot of PR work for causes many people think are lost
> (labor unions & citizen advocacy groups), and always welcomed the attention
> of mainstream media as evidence of continuing interest in the subjects.
> Being ignored is the worst fate of all.
>
> Bill Wagner
>
> Mark wrote:
>
> > >Having made my living for many years as a journalist, I'd like to
> > >comment in defense of the Post & Carolyn See.  Most people outside of
> > >academia do not share the enthusiasm for obscure references and
> > >multi-lingual poems.  It always struck me as elitist snobbery... a kind
> > >of intellectual showing off, as in "see how many languages I know" ...
> > >aimed at other people who could devote their lives unravelling puzzles
> > >so they, too, could show off their erudition.
> > >
> > >Count me on the side of the Post on this one, although I too agree that
> > >they are usually more aligned with the people who write the paychecks
> > >than those who receive them.
> > >
> >
> > I am not an academic. I read [and re-read] the Cantos just for
> > pleasure, as most other readers do.
> > It seems to me that Pound uses other languages the same way
> > he uses English. That is, his English runs the gamut from Olde English,
> > middle English, Elizabethan, 18th Century prose, pedantic, slangy,
> > conventionally poetic, conventionally un-poetic, a dozen dialects,
> > etc. I gather that,like Shakespeare, Ez wanted to use all the
> > words and "styles" he knew in order to fit the global range
> > of the epic he intended. Since he knew several other languages,
> > he used them, too.
> > Words like "elitist snob" are called "snarl words" in general semantics,
> > because they convey mammalian anger without human (rational)
> > content. But if it makes Mr Wagner happpy I will try to feel
> > ashamed of liking a book he doesn't like.
> >
> > mark chan
> >
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> > That is precisely what common sense is for, to be jarred into uncommon
> > sense.  One of the chief services whcih mathematics has  rendered the
> > human race in the past century is to put "common sense" where it
> > belongs, on the topmost shelf next to the dust cannister labeled
> > "discarded nonsense."
> >         Eric  Temple   Bell, Mathematics: Queen of the Sciences
> >
> > Las die Lasagne weiter fliegen!
> >
> > ~