Tim,

My common sense reply is that, to the Jew, there is no value
difference between the antisemite who openly advocates genocide
and the antisemite who does not openly advocate genocide.
There is no practical difference, since the latter passively
paves the way for the former.  Pound was simply smitten to a
larger extent than most well-known writers of the period with
this historical disease, reasonably described with fecal
metaphor, in my humble opinion.  It amazes me, by the way, that
his friends Eliot and Cummings do not more prominently share
the stage with him in this regard.

==Dan

At 09:54 PM 7/21/00 -0400, you wrote:
> Dan,
>I admit a difference between not advocating genocide and advocating
>genocide. And with regard to my hypothesis regarding Pound's motives for
>wanting to dismiss Jews from the civil service: I offered the explanation
>that Pound thought Jews to be, as a people, ideologically unfit to govern. I
>am attempting to explicate these ideas; I am not championing them nor am I
>trying to "minimize" anything.  I could turn the tables and accuse you of
>"minimizing" with your fecal metaphor. The gulag's minimalism is
>anti-civilization.
>Tim Romano
>
>
>
>> It seems that TR is making "distinctions without a difference."
>> Whether Pound wanted to remove only Jewish bankers, or all Jews,
>> it's still disgusting racism.  And to keep Jews out of the Italian
>> gov't because they are presumed to be communists--again, a double
>> smear, completely racist.  The very idea that Jewish bankers were
>> a significant part of the bank evil is historically nonsense: the
>> vast majority of major banks operating between the wars were run
>> by gentiles.  Haven't we all seen too many Pound scholars trying
>> hard, like TR, to minimize this evil side of Pound?  Why don't
>> they learn to simply accept the fact that all of us, including
>> every great man, is at least a little smeared with shit?
>>
>> ==DP
>>
>> At 08:15 AM 7/21/00 -0400, you wrote:
>> >[WEI] > I myself pointed out that Pound advocated a "pogrom at the top" a
>> >few weeks
>> >> ago.  Perhaps you missed that  ...
>> >
>> >No, I saw it.  I believe it is one's obligation, when engaged in a public
>> >damnation of a dead poet for crimes against humanity, not to develop
>> >_shorthand_ ways of referring to the matters under discussion which might
>> >prejudice the outcome.
>> >
>> >
>> >[WEI]> So I will pose the question for you:  Is it really significant
>that
>> >Pound
>> >> wanted a "pogrom from the top."  Pound says we should look at the true
>> >> meanings of words.  What does Pogrom mean?  "An organized ande often
>> >> officially encouraged massacre or persecution of a minority group, esp
>one
>> >> conducted against the Jews".   Whether such a pogrom is from the top,
>or
>> >the
>> >> bottom, it is racist in the extreme, as well as being incendiary, an
>> >> incitement to murder of a GROUP of people based on their race, don't
>you
>> >> think?
>> >
>> >Yes, there is a a real significance, in my view, between "pogrom" and
>> >"pogrom at the top".  If I thought that Pound had intended the pogrom to
>> >refer to the Jewish people as a whole, then I would have a very different
>> >view of him than I do.  Moreover, does he not suggest, in fact, that
>there
>> >might even be a more humane way of conducting this "pogrom" -- by putting
>> >the Jewish financiers in prison on an island somewhere?  He is using the
>> >word "pogrom" figuratively, for rhetorical purposes.  His rhetoric, as I
>> >wrote, does tend to work against his finer distinctions.  In hindsight,
>we
>> >understand the wider context of this  rhetoric better than Pound did.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >[TR] He goes on to say, in that regard, that the Jewish bankers are the
>> >        Jewish people's problem.
>> >
>> >[WEI] Do you take him at his word on this?
>> >
>> >Yes and no.  To the extent that the phrase "their problem" means "a
>problem
>> >they must solve, whether ot not it is of their own making," I would agree
>> >with Pound in one sense, and disagree with him in another. The perception
>> >that the world was being sent to hell in a handbasket as a result of the
>> >manipulations by a small cabal of international Jewish financiers was
>> >"their" problem, in the sense that the diffuse hatred against Jews in
>> >general that arose therefrom is a problem FOR THEM. The perception and
>> >hatred were not of their making, and in that sense, were NOT their
>problem.
>> >While it was certainly in their own interests as a people to solve that
>> >problem, as a dispersed, minority polity, they were unable to do so.
>Today
>> >there is Israel.
>> >
>> >
>> >[WEI] >He also said, while in Italy, that he
>> >> approved of the 1942-43 rules which denied all Jews the right to serve
>in
>> >> the government.  If Jewish bankers were the only problem, and if they
>were
>> >> only the Jews problem, then why did Pound (a non-Jew) spend so much
>time
>> >> speaking about Jews; why did he support the sacking of all Jews in
>gov't
>> >> positions in Italy (most of them non-bankers); and why does he use the
>> >> racial epithets (kike, yid, etc) so indiscriminately, and so often?
>> >>
>> >
>> >I have understood Pound's desire to remove all Jews from civil service in
>> >the context of his anti-communism. Pound wants a sweeping ideological
>purge.
>> >I refer you to his frequent remarks about the Old Testatment, the hebrew
>> >scriptures, being the record of a semi-barbaric tribe of herdsmen,
>> >unsuitable, as a moral doctrine, for a modern civilized society. Pound
>saw
>> >the worldview of contemporary Jews as amenable to communism. Yes, the
>> >anti-Jewish slurs are designed for rabble-rousing, to use resentment and
>> >hatred as an engine of social and political change....but ideological
>> >change, not genocide.
>> >
>> >Regards
>> >Tim Romano
>> >
>> HOME:
>> Dan Pearlman
>> 102 Blackstone Blvd. #5
>> Providence, RI 02906
>> Tel.: 401 453-3027
>> email: [log in to unmask]
>> Fax: (253) 681-8518
>> http://www.uri.edu/artsci/english/clf/
>>
>> OFFICE
>> Department of English
>> University of Rhode Island
>> Kingston, RI 02881
>> Tel.: 401 874-4659
>>
>>
>
HOME:
Dan Pearlman
102 Blackstone Blvd. #5
Providence, RI 02906
Tel.: 401 453-3027
email: [log in to unmask]
Fax: (253) 681-8518
http://www.uri.edu/artsci/english/clf/

OFFICE
Department of English
University of Rhode Island
Kingston, RI 02881
Tel.: 401 874-4659