Wei,
I no longer have to hand the broadcasts edited by Doob, but there you will
find _many_ passages to support the view that Pound's racism has a
"scientific" eugenist component to it --  ~the best science today is racial~
[I paraphrase since memory fails on the exact quotation].  He makes a number
of  references in the broadcasts to the need to preserve the race from the
downgrading of miscegenation, stating that the knowledge of animal breeding
needs to be applied to human society. By the time these ideas gets to Pound,
this "science" may be merely popular science. I cannot tell you what books
or articles, or what correspondence, Pound had been reading on the subject
of social engineering (though I suspect Jonathan Morse would probably have
this information).  It may turn out that Pound read some science on this
subject and also found many of his ideas texpressed in popularizations of
these principles.  Certainly they were commonplaces. But even if these
notions were no more than "broadly cultural" as you suggest, that only
underscores the point I was making. I did not set out to demonstrate a
clearly discernible paper trail, to establish "influence" to the
satisfaction of the literary historian, though that may indeed be possible
to do. My point was rather that Pound is not an aberration; and yet a
student today might easily get that impression from the manner in which
Pound is often written about.

To demonize Pound by linking him to the harsh political acts/sins against
mankind/atrocities/draconian measures (however one wishes to characterize
them) of the leaders, ancient and modern, whom Pound chooses to exalt for
some quality or qualities they possessed, gives the false impression that
Pound was not a product of his times; it suggests that his views were so
exterme that he was on the fringes. But these views were common, almost
"mainstream."  The record of these times has been distorted and purged.

Other artists have been long ignored, their works allowed to go out of print
or rot in basements. I spent 8 years studying literature, from the late '70s
through the mid '80s and did not see the name of the painter and
man-of-letters Wyndham Lewis mentioned even once in any course description,
or hear his name mentioned by any teacher or colleague --the man whom T.S.
Eliot called "the greatest prose writer of my generation"-- and when I did
learn about Lewis, it was impossible to find copies of his many works
anywhere; in some instances, the works had been removed from the shelves. I
happen to know that rare scientific works on eugenics are being removed from
the shelves of a major university to be stored offsite, not in a special
archive, but in an area devoted to superseded or discredited volumes which
are destined eventually for the incinerator, while the pulp fiction section
is growing larger. There's a painting by Augustus John of the South African
poet Roy Campbell locked away in a basement in an art museum in Pittsburgh
PA, where it has been out of sight for maybe 40 years. e.e. cumming's work
EIMI is also out of print.  Pound's translation of Moscardino is out of
print.

If I had the broadcasts to hand, I would cite the passage where Pound writes
that it does not matter what the artist believes he is making or doing; if
he sincerely reports what his eyes are observing, his works will reflect the
times.

Tim Romano


----- Original Message -----
From: "En Lin Wei" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 1:45 AM
Subject: Pound , Censorship and "Social Darwinism"


> I want to extend warm thanks to Charles Moyer for the generous spirit of
his
> remarks on the issue of Pound and censorship.
>
> I think we see things eye to eye on this.  I am very sympathetic to your
> feeling that censorship is always a danger, and I agree with your
> interpretation of the Henry James quote, and the attendant fears regarding
> the debasement of culture.  I believe I could say the same about the first
> Voltaire quote ("I defend your right . . . .").  Regarding the second
> Voltaire quote ("I am fond of truth, but not of martyrdom"), I appreciate
> the complexity inherent in such a position, but application to Pound's
> circumstances and Voltaire's would lead me to interpret that quote a
little
> differently.  But we need not go there right now.
>
> Salut,
>
> Wei
>
> PS.  On the topic of Pound's alleged "social darwinism" permit me a brief
> observation.
>
> People who argue that Pound's racism has its origin in Darwinism need to
> provide evidence which is more than broadly cultural, and therefore
> circumstancial.  No Pound quotes have been produced on the subject yet.
In
> the Cantos we have the line:
>
> The mythological exterior lies on the moss in the forest
> and questions him about Darwin  (29/144).
>
> Pound said he thought very little of Darwin on a number of occasions.
>
> If there is some reason to construct a reason or explanation for Pound's
> racism, then it must be done with reference to specifics in Pound's words,
I
> think.  Look at the racist quotes and determine something from contextual
> clues.  Pound said he liked the racial theory propounded by Hitler in Mein
> Kampf (which he read in Italian translation).  Of course, his racism has
its
> roots in an earlier time.  Evidence from Carpenter's rather lengthy
> biography roots the racism in Pound's early childhood environment, the
> prevalent anti-semitic, anti-black, and anti-immigrant sentiments which
> existed in his neighborhood.  The attitudes do seem absorbed and
ingrained,
> rather than reasoned out, or even rationalized.
>
> Charles Moyer wrote:
>
> <<Subject: Who demonizes ideas?
>
> Someone once told Pound that he was a sadist because he made men (as in
> mensch) think. I think governments become quite wise when they stop
> executing dissidents and thus creating martyrs. We seem to agree on that.
> But this country has been far advanced from others at the art of silencing
> its critics by denying them access to media or, in extreme cases,
> discrediting them by putting them in the "nut house". This practice,
> however, has probably seen its better days. It still amuses me that
today's
> clever attempt to keep a lid on free thought is to pay loud-mouth radio
dick
> jockies to reduce freedom of speech to a simple question of being allowed
to
> explicate sexual acts in the venacular over the airways as if that is all
> this freedom means. "The triumph of the superficial and apotheosis of the
> raw" in Henry James's words.
>     "Poetry sucks. I never could understand any of it." belts out Howard
> Stern. "HA,HA,HA" counters Robin (Aunt Tom or whatever she is supposed to
> be), the sidekick. My wholesome generation had Edgar Bergen and Charlie
> McCarthy.
>
>           "But a tawdry cheapness shall outlast our days" Pound predicted.
>
>     Wei, we don't disagree as much as it might seem; but I only fear, to
> answer your question, that, yes, "someone might want to put a warning on
his
> works" or worse. And I fear that in doing so they may see it expedient to
> quote their chosen "experts in the field". Would you want to be used as a
> tool for such censorship? Would you want your statements taken out of
> context and used for such purposes?
>     It is best,I think, for us to remember the statement attributed  to
> Voltaire, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death
your
> right to say it." And Howard Stern can have his opinion too.
>     On the question of Pound's support of fascist censorship, I am not so
> sure of his open participation as you seem to be although I could
understand
> his reticence. Voltaire also said, "I am fond of truth, but not at all of
> martyrdom." There's never an easy answer is there?
>     On the subject of Social Darwinism, it strikes me as how neatly it
> replaces Calvinism  granting the same rationalization for beating up
someone
> weaker than oneself. Hence the phoney debate between science and religion.
> And I wonder what kind of latest "salvation" will we peddle to the world
of
> "expanding markets" while we line our pockets with our filthy lucre.
>
> CM>>
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