Can we infer something from this scatological question? Stoneking ----- Original Message ----- From: Sarab Nihal Singh <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 12:27 AM Subject: know thy kulture 101 > WHAT THE FUCK IS THE MITZVA ? > > > >From: "Jonathan P. Gill" <[log in to unmask]> > >Reply-To: Ezra Pound discussion list of the University of Maine > > <[log in to unmask]> > >To: [log in to unmask] > >Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism: getting started understanding it > >Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:37:00 -0400 > > > >Fellow Poundians: > > > >I fear from Tim Romano's letter that some of us may be getting our > >knowledge of Judaism from Pound--a very bad idea. > > > >As regards interest and gentiles, the Hebrew Scriptures have hundreds of > >laws, articulated in a variety of confusing ways (hence the secondary, > >tertiary legal literature). For every rule that talks about charging > >interest only to gentiles, there's one that says Jews are obligated to > >treat gentiles better than fellow Jews. > > > >As for alleged Jewish shame about coition, this seems to be some sort of > >retroactive Pauline or Augustine influence. Far from being considered a > >bad thing, sex is part of man's side of the covenant--every observant Jew > >knows that heterosexual intercourse in considered a mitzvah--especially on > >the Sabbath! > > > >I'm not blind to the restrictions in Jewish law on other kinds of sex > >(homosexuality, onanism, etc.)--but I suspect that, as usual, Pound was > >alot closer to the Jews on this issue that he was willing to admit. > > > >By the way, I'd like to hear from Leon Surette more often on this list. > >For now, I wonder how he compares his own view of Pound's "conversion" to > >anti-semitism (apologies for the paraphrase) to that of Wendy Flory, who > >dates it to 1935 and gives Ethiopia as the reason. > > > >Jonathan Gill > >Columbia University > > > > > > > >On Mon, 18 Oct 1999, Tim Romano wrote: > > > > > Tim, > > > I won't suggest any literature that addresses your basic incomprehension > >of > > > the related hatreds. But hatred (racial, tribal, etc) does not seem > > > unnatural to me -- it seems more the anthropological rule than the > > > exception. The Jews considered themselves the Chosen Race. African > >tribes > > > massacre each other. Many Koreans despise whites. The Japanese consider > > > themselves superior. Many whites consider blacks to be inferior. The > >ancient > > > Saxons thought the dark-skinned Britons were an inferior race. Not a > >modern > > > phenomenon by any means. Genocide is nothing new. These feelings are > > > perhaps instinctual. > > > > > > But I have not encountered anything that I would regard as racial or > >tribal > > > hatred in Pound's writings, though I've yet to read the Agresti letters > >and > > > am not very far into Pound's wartime radio broadcasts, and maybe there > >is > > > evidence of this kind of hatred to be found in the things I haven't read > > > yet. In one of his wartime broadcasts, Pound actually speaks out against > >the > > > physical stereotyping of the Japanese in Zukor's animated cartoons. > > > > > > In what I have read of his, Pound's "anti-Semiticism" is > > > culturally/economically based. Deuteronomy permits the Jews when > > > moneylending to charge interest to Gentiles only. Pound had great > >antipathy > > > for Jewish monotheism and the shame in which it shrouds the human act of > > > coition. There are things one might reasonably hate about Jewish culture > > > which have nothing to do with racial or tribal hatred, or hatred of any > > > individual human being who happens to have been raised as a Jew, just as > >one > > > might despise the practice of female infanticide or female genital > > > mutilation or the chopping off of the hands of petty thieves or the use > >of > > > the flagellum. Some cultures are more humane than others, if not more > > > human. > > > > > > Tim Romano > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Tim Bray <[log in to unmask]> > > > To: <[log in to unmask]> > > > Sent: Monday, 18 Oct 1999 12:27 AM > > > Subject: Anti-Semitism: getting started understanding it > > > > > > > > > > As a well-read non-humanist in his 40s who has spent time in the third > > > > world and seen tribal hate at work, the problem I have with all the > > > holocaust > > > > literature is that it fails to address my basic incomprehension as to > >how > > > this > > > > could have happened. I.e. how intelligent well-educated people (eg > >EP, > > > nuts > > > > maybe, smart probably, well-educated definitely) can have thought such > > > > silly things and done such evil things? The tribal hate I've seen > >could > > > not > > > > survive in the absence of real immediate grievance (they killed my > > > brother) > > > > and the presence of a decent education (history and ethics are > > > complicated). > > > > > > > > So, on the assumption that people who agonize over EP know something > >about > > > > this subject, what would be a good recommendation for literature to > > > address > > > > this basic incomprehension? -T. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >