Dear Jacob, Thanks for your reply. I agree that Pound did not rule out visual images in the normal sense of the word, but I think what separates him from the other Imagists is that he built on the foundation gained from skills sharpened through the "don'ts" of Imagism, whereas they remained basically visual. He has a lot to say regarding the selection of details, and their presentation in relation to each other. "Swift perception of relations" as he often quotes Aristotle. I think in a sense Imagism is a way of removing all inessential matter so that the relations between the selected details will become more apparent to the reader, sharpening the poetic sensation produced. In his 1914 article "Vorticism" he redefines the image as "a vortex, through which and into which ideas are constantly rushing" (or something like that, I don't have it with me.) It seems that if the details are appropriately selected and presented, then their relation will produce this vortex of meaning and association, which is the effect of the poem. It is this vortex that moves the reader. The difference is that Pound's Imagism often attains this vortex, while the work of the other Imagists usually does not. Similarly, this image or vortex may be built up to any size, whether two lines, or a large inter-related, many levelled image, which nonethelss retains a singular focus, like a Noh play, as Stephen mentioned, or the Paradiso. Jason Monios. Stephen Adams wrote: >This whole issue of what Pound meant by "imagism" rarely takes into >account his descriptions of "The Seafarer" or a single Noh play as "an >image." > >On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Jacob Korg wrote: > >> Dear Jason: >> Yes, I think there are the elements of a controversy here. >> Schneidau, and Grieve following him, have strongly attacked the "visual" >> approach to Imagism, but comment in Poetry magazine and elsewhere shows >> that the Imagists did have a pictorial effect in mind.This may be worth an >> article reviewing the situation, but I find Pound writing that the most >> "poetic"poetry "seems as if sculpture or painting" were forcing their way >> into words, and that art's highest function is to fill the mind with "a >> noble profusion of sounds and images" -- EP's review of Yeats' poetry, >> Poetry mag, May, 1914. Then, Alice Corbin Henderson's review of Des >> Imagistes -- "Imagism isd essentially a graphic art. . . the visual >> element plays an important part inthe poems in this volume"-- Poetry, >> October, 1914. >> I will have to look at the Pound-Corbin letters to see whether >> Pound challenged her on this.But so far it seems that the Imagists were >> not excluding "imagery" in the usual sense or visual impressions. >> > > Stephen Adams > Department of English > University of Western Ontario > London, Canada N6A-3K7 > [log in to unmask] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com