At 09:45 AM 8/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >But there is a fundamental conflict between Taoism and Confucianism. It >exists in their differing understanding of how words function. This is one of many fundamental conflicts between Taoism and Confucianism. One is very relaxed about order, for instance, and abstract concepts, and one goes on for volumes about filial piety, ritual, duty, humaneness, righteousness, etc. add words and their functions to this and you have two very different philosophies. All this notwithstanding, though, for thousands of years chinese people and others have lived with both systems about equally important to their lives. some might say it has something to do with the yin/yang inherent in life, and many probably don't think they're contradictory at all and hardly give a thought to the matter. We're dealing with two philosophies that deal with two different worlds, pretty much. Confucianism is within society and Taoism is outside of it, in general (though not necessarily), and to use language and its function as an example, we may all admit that language is unreliable and can't possibly convey everything or sometimes anything we really want it to or think it should (Taoism), but we still use it, pay attention to grammar and syntax, and press spell-check at the end of all our documents (Confucianism). Is there a contradiction here? of course there is. but what else can you do, especially when neither Taoism nor Confucianism has ever existed in a vacuum wholly its own, when they have always been involved with each other's affairs? We still use language and simultaneously believe it can be pretty worthless. In fact, I think it's an action pretty emblematic of Western culture and the philosophical tradition to try, as Pound did, to espouse one philosophy and denigrate the other. I never heard of many Chinese poets spewing bad talk about the Taozers, or the Confusionists, or anything like that. But I'd say it bit Pound in the ass, eventually. He had a lot of Taoism in him, for sure, whether he knew it or not. Finally, I'd recommend to anyone interested in this the book Journey to the West, which is one of the cornerstones of the Chinese fiction canon. There's a full translation by Anthony Yu, which is something like four volumes and more than most people have the time for. The best abridged translation is called Monkey, translated by Arthur Waley. At any given time you may find the book Taoist, Confucian, or Buddhist, but if you pay close enough attention, I think you'll find something a little more than any of those philosophies on its own. Lucas . . Lucas Klein [log in to unmask] 0000,8080,0000Isolate landscape. World's grip. The absolute, as small as a poker chip, moves off, Bright moon shining between pines. 8080,8080,0000Charles Wright, After Reading Wang Wei, I Go Outside to the Full Moon