Didn't anyone receive my Thursday post about Omar Khayyam? FitzGerald's translation, a favorite of ep's early and late, seems a much more evident source for this orientalist imagery. wp Booth, Christopher wrote: > That Pound might not have had the Eastern background yet to significantly > weave in a Buddhist or Confucian conceit may be so, but the fact remains > that a "prayer wheel" is a term dating from 1814 (according to my Webster's > 10th here at work), and it is a term that would have been familiar to > missionaries, students of philosophy, theology, Asia, geography, readers of > National Geographic, travel literature, etc., etc. Pound had not yet hit on > his Asian vein, but lets give him credit for having a decent vocabulary and > the general knowledge that an educated young man with a curiosity about the > world would have had in his day. > > It is a not uncommon fallacy to assume that a writer's knowledge about a > subject was tabula rasa before a certain period in the writer's development. > It seems absurd to me that Pound could not have used a common phrase that > would have been as in the realm of general knowledge in his day as it is > now, only because we would like to catagorize its use under "E.P.: Asian > Reference". It doesn't have to be a mature Eastern reference, but an > appropriate phrase for an image. > > I don't have a copy of the poem here, but if the line does indeed run as > > Th' alternate prayer wheel of the night and light > > then it is a prayer wheel. A prayer wheel is a prayer wheel, and was so in > his day. > > What is the liklihood that Pound would have coined a phrase already in use? > > !!!!!!!!!! > > Although I am still quite comfortable with what I said above, a trip to the > OED fished up this treasure under _prayer wheel_: > > 2. A wheel set with bells and fastened to the ceiling of a chapel, > formerly used for divination in connexion with masses or > other devotional services. > > 1897 _Daily News_ 26 July 5/1 Even now in Brittany > a kind of prayer wheels are kept in churches and set > spinning by the devout. > > Hmmm. Perhaps Brittany is located somewhere between Lhasa and Kathmandu? [_A > Lume_ and _Cathay_?] ;-) > > > ---------- > > From: Robert E. Kibler > > Reply To: Robert E Kibler > > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 1998 6:30 PM > > To: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: Re: re grace before song lines 1-3 > > > > > > > I would be surprised if the "prayer wheel" refers to anything > > Buddhist/Tibetan > > so early in pound's career. there are other possibilities--I know D. H. > > lawrence, for example, writes about the 'cry of the peewit and the wheel > > of the > > stars." May have been a common expression in first two decades of 20th. > > Pound > > had touched upon Eastern poetry before Fenollosa--he had read Gile's book > > on > > Chinese poetry, and Judith Gautier's Book of Jade, among other precious > > 19th > > century translations. There had also been a general Eastern influence in > > art, > > from Van Goh to Whistler, the effect is registered on canvass. Further, > > one of Pound's first friends in london, Lawrence binyon, was curator of > > the > > Eastern arts collection at the British Museum. So Eastern culture was > > again in > > the air in the last decades of 19th, and early 20th, and Pound was aware > > of it. > > But if an image such as this early prayer wheel were to have its origins > > in the > > East, it would probably have been accompanied by other tell-tale Eastern > > images. Pound's early poems follow the years during which he had carefully > > imitated styles of poets whom he thought to be great. Good recent sources > > for > > early Asian influence on him is Zhaoming Qian's book to that effect, as > > well as > > Mary Patterson Cheadle's book on Pound's Confucian Translations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HTEN=3DCONDENSARE) and the latin origins of the word, _dictare_, to com= > > pose > > >(create) or dictate, in conjunction with the word _light_ on the next > > >line--an important word in Pound--and its Genesis resonances. Dight also > > >meant to ordain or equip, and a "dighter" was a poet. Etc. Hmmm....] > > > > Being a student of German, I pretty much smack my forehead in shame at > > this point.....Yikes! But thank you for pointing it out! Dichter =3D > > dighter. So essentially on the basis of etymology and rhyme Pound brings > > together the notion of poetic/theologic creation with the notions of > > night and light as antagonistic life-animating aesthetic forces etc. =8B > > there's more here than I even thought of before. Still, I would ask what > > the connection is with the rest of the poem, and the imagery of offering > > oneself into a sort of oblivion. Maybe the eternal spiralling exchange > > of "Night and light" can be read as a foil to the once-and-done-with > > disappearance of rain into sea, word into silence, art into indifference, > > etc. But I'm only conjecturing. > > > > Also I would still quibble over the third line, in getting down to the > > basic roots of grammar: the meaning up to the end of line 2 is clear, and > > I read "that with mercy dight" etc. as a relative clause, but what's the > > connection with "Eternal hath to thee"? What's the object of "hath"; why > > is it eternal (or possibly clipped "eternally")? What is going on, > > grammtically speaking, in this line? > > > > Thank you, Mr. Booth, for your very helpful suggestions. > > > > Cheers, Michael Kicey > > > > _________________________________________________ > > > > "you love in spite of, not because of" > > -Lucas Klein > > > > _________________________________________________ > > Michael Kicey > > F&M #836 > > Franklin and Marshall College > > PO Box 3220 > > Lancaster PA 17604-3220 > > > > email: [log in to unmask] > > net: http://acad.fandm.edu/~M_Kicey/ > > phone: 717.399.6747 > > _________________________________________________ > > > > > > Robert E. Kibler > > Department of English > > University of Minnesota > > [log in to unmask] > > > > fortunatus et ille, deos qui novit agrestis, > > Panaque Silvanumque senem Nymphasque sorores. > >