Hey there Vickie - Great post! I want to tell you how valuable your perspective is in these discussions, which sometimes seem like personal attacks. Don't stop! Their mettle is unquestionable. It may be that folks like John need to have a more personal relationship with players, get to see the misery in their eyes as they stand, night after night, all dressed up in their Sunday clothes, watching the game from the stands. Those guys sometimes are the ones who truly deserve 7th player status in the eyes of the team. Z-man is one mentioned to me very often by the players (Paul Zinchenko to you uninitiated!). Always there, always supportive, always willing to play up or back as the team needs. If John could stand with them for a game or two, maybe then the moot point would be the statistics, and the true value would be spirit! CAN"T WAIT FOR OCTOBER WHEN WE CAN DISCUSS SOME REAL HOCKEY! Cathy Hart