Adam C Wodon wrote >McNeill clearly motioned with his hand to knock it out of the air, and >his intention also seems clear. But regardless, the refs always call >that. So, you can defend the call in other ways, but I don't believe >you can defend it by saying the pass wasn't deliberate. I agree that he clearly motioned with his hand to knock it out of the air, but I think that's where the referee got the call right. It's okay for McNeill to intentionally knock it out of the air and down to the ice. That's perfectly okay under the hand pass rule. Nobody can doubt he did that on purpose. What he can't do is "deliberately direct" the puck TO a teammate. He also can't bat the puck into the net directly or off the goalie or anybody else and score a goal. Now he definitely did knock it down and intentionally, but there isn't anything in the rules that I saw that say a defender has to touch the puck before another offensive player is allowed to touch it again. So even if McNeill knocked the puck down on purpose hoping a teammate would come along and stuff the puck in the net, he has not made an illegal hand pass. He actually made a very good play. The rule is very clear that unless the ref can say in his opinion that McNeill deliberately directed the puck to a teammate, he is not supposed to call an illegal hand pass. I just don't see how anyone can say with with certainty he "deliberately directed" the puck anywhere but down where it ended up behind the goalie and Remackel followed the play and put the puck in for the goal. I'm not clear on what it is you're saying the refs always call. In the games I've seen, intentionally swatting the puck down is not called a hand pass. It's only called a hand pass if it is directed anywhere else but down and you are in the offensive zone. The rule says "deliberately directed" not "deliberately swatted down". It specifically says that is okay. If the NCAA rule is the same as the one for the NHL I included in the previous message then in my opinion, even though it is a tough and controversial way to lose, it's a goal. Any NCAA refs out there that can comment on the hand pass rule? Anybody know if the complete NCAA hockey rules are on-line somewhere? Eric Carlson [log in to unmask] HOCKEY-L is for discussion of college ice hockey; send information to [log in to unmask], The College Hockey Information List.