I can see that old potentially explosive thread beginning to emerge once again, so I'd like to make a suggestion. Rather than argue about the relative admissions selectivity of the schools in various conferences with no supporting data, why don't those of us who feel passionately about the subject compile some data and present it? As much as I dislike the college boards, the average board scores for incoming freshmen are a matter of public record and are published in all the guides to American colleges. That's a good place to start. And some measure of research dollars per faculty member might be another (cringe). I personally don't give a darn about this subject, but I'm a little tired of seeing the debate framed in "Did TOO ... did NOT" terms:-) From steamy Schenectady, -- Dick Tuthill