Well, who was the greater theologian, Pound or Sherman? Tom, I don't think you have to humble yourself to the sacrosanct Pound "scholars". I would rather read what you have to write because your thoughts always come from a heart which has deeply and wisely read from its own experience, and that is how you are like Pound himself. Pax vobiscum, Charlie > From: Tom White <[log in to unmask]> > Reply-To: - Ezra Pound discussion list of the University of Maine > <[log in to unmask]> > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 14:08:10 -0500 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Pound & Baudelaire? > > To Sylvester, Tim, Kevin, Charles: > > I'm responding here to the whole list, and perhaps should by now be > taking this discussion off list, to address only individuals; but > thought I might be forgiven at least one more message before doing > that. I am grateful to all I name above for help on my initial query. > > To respond to Kevin's query: I posed it because I had two things > going: I am writing a general article on Pound for a magazine that > has been kind enough to take some of my things in the past, and I was > working on a "pum" of my own. The poem started out to be a comment > (logopoeia?) on Lennon's song, "Imagine," which has annoyed me for > two reasons (1) he seems to be objecting foolishly to the > constitution of our universe as our (human) senses receive it, that > is, as made up of opposites, and (2) and because it is so popular, > and dammit, so good, IMHO. I especially like Baez's version, as I > like her version of Dylan's "Forever Young," probably chiefly for the > reason that I am a month from being 84. I am not bragging (or am I?), > but perhaps more hinting as to why the existence (or not) of Paradiso > has come to interest me a lot. > > For the general article (not a scholarly effort since I am not a bona > fide Pound scholar or a scholar of anything else really) I wanted to > make a sweeping generalization more of less to the effect that > Pound's entire life and outlook and certainly his megawork, the > Cantos, reflect, portray, embody, (etc., etc.), the pull and haul of > two of the master opposites, paradise and hell. I believe in his > contention, or at least implication, that Paradise can be built and > held in the mind even before death. > > (I keep in mind an ever so slightly impatient dismissal by that saint > of metaphysical scholarship, Ananda Coomaraswamy, of a correspondent > of his who wrote to complain that the universe or God or somebody had > got things wrong with all that good/bad, black/white stuff. He (that > is, God or his stand-in) should have done better.) > > My level of hubris in even attempting to write about EP can be > indicated by the fact that I had not known that the French version of > the line about Le paradis referred to a Baudelaire text (thanks, Tim) > and even with that lead, I still don't know where it comes from in B, > that is, what the context is. I see Kevin works hashish into the > picture. I left booze and drugs behind in 59, a decade ahead of the > so-called Revolution of 1968. I still don't know quite what that > really was, although I think I was in some ways helping to set it up > in the 50s. > > I particularly love Canto CXX. Maybe it seems to me quintessential > old-man's verse. I wish I could quote it entire in my mag piece, but > I suppose it constitutes a "whole poem" for copyright considerations. > Anybody have an informed opinion on that? > > I am a retread Christian with a heightened appreciation of the > central figure of the Gospels. EP and G. Santayana are two of my > culture heroes; both of them wrote brilliantly and winningly, I would > even say lovingly, of Christ; both seem to have been badly burned by > institutional Xty, something I have come to see as almost inevitable > in growing up churched. Someone on this email list suggested that > EP's references to Zagreus can be taken as references to Christ/ > Logos. I have unfortunately forgotten who it was who said that and > wish I hadn't. Perhaps no one else sees it that way. Christ is > presently being rather badly salvaged by the Talmudites; I don't > think their thing has legs, however. The whole business is up in the > air, and dishonesty rather rules these days. We all, I think, are > waiting, one way for another, for release from l'enfer, that is, for > entry into Le Paradis, with or without houris. > > Thanks for your patience. Tom White > > > On Apr 14, 2007, at 11:09 AM, Kevin Kiely wrote: > >> Sylvester, Tim and Colleagues, >> >> Tom White suggests an ignition, leading from/to: >> >> Baudelaire¹s ŒDu vin et du haschisch¹ and ŒLes Paradis >> artificiels¹‹?‹are >> the latter >> >> in receipt of a riposte from EP, apropos‹the paradise in not >> artificial >> >> And in passing Œparadise¹ schematically pervades the Cantos, as TW >> says, is >> he working up a total statement on this‹?‹: >> >> Œhath no man a painted paradise on his church wall¹ C 45 >> >> ŒSo that walking here under the larches of Paradise¹ C 94 >> >> Œnel Paradiso Terrestre¹ C 105 >> >> ŒI tried to make a paradiso >> terrestre.¹ C 117 [incomplete] >> >> ...& more >> >> >> ‹Kevin Kiely, Dublin