Thank you Hiroko Uno. THIS IS JUST TO SAY by William Carlos Williams I have eaten the plums that were in the icebox And which you were probably saving for breakfast Forgive me they were delicious so sweet and so cold ---------- >From: bernard dew <[log in to unmask]> >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: "The River Merchant's Wife: A Letter" >Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 08:56:00 -0400 > > blue plums sounds better anyways... just my my opinion.... > > Hiroko Uno wrote: > >> Dear Dan, >> >> In the original poem Li-Po uses the Chinese character meaning the color >> blue, but the same character also means another color green as well as >> youth >> or immature condition in some context. So, "blue plum" means unripe fruit >> of plum, which is actually green. >> >> Unripe fruit of plum is called "blue plum" in Japan, too. By the way, in >> Japan we call one of the colors of a signal "blue," although it is >> actually >> green. >> >> According to Peter Brooker, Arthur Waley "has 'green plums'" in his >> translation. Authur Cooper also has "green plums" in his book "Lipo and >> Tufu" in Penguin Books. However, I think Pound is correct, using "blue" >> here, because he follows Chinese and Japanese cultures and because Li-Po >> actually uses the character "blue." >> >> According to Kumiko Kakehi, a Japanese scholar of Chinese ancient poetry, >> the line with "blue plum" refers to another ancient Chinese poem >> "Hyo-Yu-Bai" in Shikyo (I am sorry these are in Japanese >> pronunciation), in >> which very young people express their first pure love with unripe blue >> plums. >> >> Therefore, in this poem Li-Po suggests the faint or indistinct love >> between >> the two young children by the "blue plums." >> >> Hiroko Uno (Japanese) >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Back door" <[log in to unmask]> >> To: <[log in to unmask]> >> Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 4:41 PM >> Subject: "The River Merchant's Wife: A Letter" >> >> >>> I was preparing Pound's translation of "The River Merchant's >>> Wife: A Letter" for class, when I came across another translation >>> of the same poem. This one is by a Gary Geddes, and is from the >>> Chinese original. He called it "The Song of Ch'ang-kan". >>> Pound's is from the Japanese Rihaku version. >>> Here are the first few lines of the Geddes: >>> >>> "While the hair barely covered my forehead >>> I plucked a flower and played at my front door. >>> You came by riding a bamboo horse >>> and we circled the well, innocent as green plums." >>> >>> Why Pound would have used blue for the >>> color of the plums. Green makes more sense? >>> WHich translation is correct? >>> >>> Any thoughts? >>> Thanks, >>> Dan. >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> Take advantage of powerful junk e-mail filters built on patented >>> Microsoft $B%g (B >>> SmartScreen Technology. >>> > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotma > il.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines >>> Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN $B%g (B Premium right now and >>> get the >>> first two months FREE*. >>> >>> >>