Thanks to all the participants in this discussion for one of the most stimulating "threads" in a long time. I wish I'd been around to read all of the posts as they came in, instead of having to skim them somewhat on my return from holiday. I think the ant in Canto 81 is part of the menagerie of small creatures (including mme la vespa et al) with whom Pound passed his time in the open air at Pisa. When under attack, the ant rears up its thorax and forelegs, thus resembling a centaur; the "dragons" are the ant's larger adversaries in the insect world (beetles, centipedes and so on). "Centaur" and "dragon" are primarily visual images which "scale up" the lilliputian conflict, as in one of those natural history films of which public service broadcasters are so fond. Paradoxically, the effect of this scaling up is to scale down the drama of human aspirations and disasters; we are led to understand that when viewed on the cosmic scale our own lives are as small as the ant's life appears to be when viewed on the human scale. Pound's lesson in humility involves appreciating both the significance of things which we habitually regard as insignificant (ants, wasps, etc), and the insignificance of thing we have learnt to regard as significant (ourselves). Though ostensibly addressed to the obscure dress-designer Paquin, no-one supposes that Paquin is the interlocutor really intended by Pound. I think the choice of this highly oblique procedure supports the view that the lines involve self-reproach and are not merely another harangue against the world at large, excluding Pound himself. Pound typically adopts oblique procedures when criticising himself, eg by lapsing into French (j'ai eu pitie des autres | probablement pas assez, and at moments that suited my own convenience). So, like Tim Romano, I'd tend not to put too much emphasis on the possible symbolic meanings of "ant" and "centaur", interesting and thought-provoking though these are. Richard Edwards _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.