CM wrote: > Wei, did you know that the fasces flank both sides of the U.S. >Senate? I am aware that the fasces is on the seal of the Senate, juxtaposed with a "red cap of liberty" (see information below). How do you interpret this information in connection with Pound's use of the fasces? There are a number of ways you could go with this. What line of reasoning do you want to follow, and what conclusion would you draw from that fact? A liberal defender of the Senate might argue as follows: The significance of the fasces on the Senate seal is different than the significance of the symbol for Italian fascism. Read the excerpt from the official web page of the US Senate: Olive and oak branches symbolizing peace and strength grace the sides of the shield, and a red liberty cap and crossed **fasces** represent freedom and authority. Blue beams of light emanate from the shield. Surrounding the seal is the legend, "United States Senate." The seal is affixed to impeachment documents and resolutions of consent to international treaties. In this case, "authority," (as represented by the fasces) is in the hands of the Senate, as a legislative check on the executive, as the seal is used for impeachments, and to show that the President cannot conclude treaties without the consent of the Senate. The juxtaposition of the fasces with the "red cap of liberty" serves to distinguish the original more authoritarian use of the symbol by the Romans. Seen in its historical context the US Senate's use of the fasces MIGHT be seen as an advance, in that "authority" is tempered by committment to Liberty. (Mussolini and Pound's interest in the symbol is reactionary, however, because it symbolizes unchecked authority. Neither Mussolini or Pound show any interest in any system of checks and balances, or in a democratic assembly, elected by the people, as an institution in which Supreme Authority should be vested. Both are interested in the renovation of imperial Rome. Pound wants the symbol of the fasces made equivalent with the Hsin character and the absolute Confucian monarch associated with its use in the Confucian classic.) A less sympathetic view of the role of fasces symbol in the US Senate would simply say: The symbol of authority is an indication of the latent fascism and authoritarianism inherent in the current American system, which more resembles the Roman Senatorial elite system than it does a true democracy suitable for a modern people. Many might wonder whether the Senate (which in many ways resembles a House of Lords) should continue to exist. The more democratic founding fathers, like Benjamin Franklin, opposed the existence of a Senate (which they felt would simply represent the interests of the richer classes, and override the general will of the people). Which of these views makes the most sense to you, or do you have another view? And since Pound specifically equates the symbol with Mussolini's "continuous revolution", or fascist revolution--- and not with any notion of a check on authoritarian power (or check on executive power)--- what relevance does the presence of the symbol on the Senate seal have for our discussion of Pound? Full description of the Senate Seal: http://www.senate.gov/learning/brief_16.html Senate Seal The seal of the Senate, based on the Great Seal of the United States, includes a scroll inscribed with E Pluribus Unum floating across a shield with thirteen stars on top and thirteen vertical stripes on the bottom. Olive and oak branches symbolizing peace and strength grace the sides of the shield, and a red liberty cap and crossed fasces represent freedom and authority. Blue beams of light emanate from the shield. Surrounding the seal is the legend, "United States Senate." The seal is affixed to impeachment documents and resolutions of consent to international treaties. It also appears on presentation copies of Senate resolutions recognizing appointments, commendations, and notable achievements. Regards, Wei ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com