I think we agree on this point. By "simple" I meant something like "unmitigated" and by "exploitation" I meant something like the rounding up and enslavement of aboriginal populations to make rubber. Pound is making a distinction between that sort of one-sided taking and the spreading of civilization. Tim Romano ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carrol Cox" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 9:25 PM Subject: Re: Seeking an exit . . . [an exit towards . . .?]----Pound'sImperialist Utopia > Tim Romano wrote: > > > How, then, do you interpret the line in its first appearance in the poem? > > It's used twice. The poem juxtaposes two (very different?) imperialist > > acts: > > > > IN THE NAME OF GOD THE MOST GLORIOUS MR. D'ARCY > > is permitted for 50 years to dig up the subsoil of Persia > > > > ... > > > > PLEASING TO CARTHEGINIANS: HANNO > > that he ply beyond pillars of Herakles > > 60 ships of armada to lay out Phoenician cities > > > > The first seems to be simple exploitation of natural resource. > > No -- the race for Persian oil was one of the sources of World War > I. A very modern kind of imperialism was involved. There's almost > a full column of references to Iran in the Index to Lenin's *Collected > Works*. > > > The latter > > seems to be a founding, a spreading of civilization. To lump them together > > seems to overlook the distinction Pound was trying to make. > > But the distinction (if there is one) could not be made without first lumping > them together. And at least off hand the repeated line would seem to > join rather than separate the two explorations. I've never checked, but > I would think it probable that Zaretsky would have been involved in > Persian oil -- and I presume Morgan and Zaretsky are the "same" in > Pound's demonology. > > > > > > Carrol Cox's "imperial clutter" might be applied to the "seignieurial > > splendours" (read vain trappings ) of the first example of > > empire("haberdashery, clocks, ormoulu, brocatelli, tapestries, unreadable > > volumes bound in tree-calf, half-morocco, morocco, tooled edges, green > > ribbons, flaps, farthingales fichus, cuties, shorties, pinkies et > > etera") ---but desire to escape that clutter of vanities is not a > > satisfactory explanation of the force of the line "Out of which things > > seeking an exit" the second time it is used in the canto. > > Perhaps it is my merely personal response, but it seems to me Canto 40 > in many ways echoes Canto 29. Both do end with a thrust out beyond > the towers of Hercules, and the "And lest it pass with the day's news / > Thrown out with the daily paper" has, for me, a similar "feel" to "Out of > which things seeking an exit." In both cantos there are various kinds of > clutter (not all of it negatively judged) climaxing with a burst into a > cleanly cut "beyond": > > Went on into darkness, > Saw naught above but close dark, > Weight of ice on the fuselage > Borne into the tempest, black cloud wrapping their wings . . . > (Canto 29, 139) > Could it be that with all his venom against clutter Pound also > (and in this he would have been correct) saw it as an essential > part of "civilization" but a part from which one had to periodically > "escape"? He does, after all, always return to the clutter, > and in Canto 41 it is the "Boss's" focus on creativity ("but what will > you / DO with that money?") that cuts through the clutter of the > Morgans et al. > > > > And the first use > > of the line makes me question your interpretation that it refers to an > > "aesthetic moment". "Exit" is too negative in its connotations, I think, for > > it to convey such a meaning. > > I don't know about the "aesthetic moment," but how is "Exit" negative > in its connotations? It is one of the most common images of the poem > it seems to me. It comes back repeatedly until the very end: > > Flaccus' translator wore the crown > The jew and the buggar dragged it down: > Devil in dung-cart" Gondemar > And Raleigh's head on King James' platter" > "That the dead will not fawn to advance themselves" > 1621, December eleventh. > So that Dante's view is quite natural: > this light > as a river, > in Kung; in Ocellus, Coke, Agassiz > [rei], the flowing > this persistent awareness > (Canto 107, 782) > > It is even there, parodied and with a sneer, in > > She held that a sonnet was a sonnet > And ought never to be destroyed, > And had taken a number of courses > And continued with hopes of degrees and > Ended in a Baptist learnery > Somewhere near the Rio Grande. > (Canto 28, 135-6) > > Again a merely personal reaction: these seem to me among > the most poignant lines in the poem. > > Carrol Cox > > > > > > > Tim Romano > > > > En Lin Wei wrote: > > > > > Tim Romano asks about the phrase "seeking an exit." > > [snip] > >