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Subject:
From:
Tim Romano <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
- Ezra Pound discussion list of the University of Maine <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Thu, 27 Dec 2001 08:17:25 -0500
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Carlo,
I'll will readily admit that there can be a kind of drama, even an
intellectual exhilaration, in the juxtaposition of "primary
materials".  But a work that uses this technique overmuch is likely to be
inaccessible to a large group of readers.  I do not mean to imply that the
sole, or even the primary, measure of success of a work is to be found in
the size of its immediate audience, or that when the size of its audience
is indeed considered, that the consideration should be in monetary terms.
Yet one of the laudable goals of the epic is, I think, to be as accessible
as the poet can manage to make it -- to reach a broad and diverse
audience.  That said, there is certainly a place for compendious didactic
works chock-full of lore, which teach the adept, and a "failed epic" might
very well be a successful something-else when judged against different
criteria.  Ceterus paribus, a poem attracts its audience.
Tim Romano


At 10:57 PM 12/26/01 -0500, R.Gancie/C.Parcelli wrote:
>Tim,
>
>Actually, I did mean obligation "of" the reader. The obligation is not to the
>text/poem per se but to that which the text addresses. If the text addresses
>something like game theory which it is agreed is fundamental to the culture in
>which the potential reader is operating, it seems that an obligation to
>understand
>its rudiments falls upon the reader as much as the poet. Then, as with
>Pound, there
>is the discovery of new elements. With game theory the new element has the
>salutory
>effect of being extraordinarily relevant and utile. More than occasionally
>I get a
>response thanking me for steering the reader to some scientific taxonomy that
>proves culturally, historically and/or epistemologically illuminating.
>This is the
>up side of the didacticism of the Cantos. They were an extraordinary
>teaching tool
>for me both contextuallly and structurally.
>
>Yes, I also like to find a dramatic context for illustration. Occasionalyy
>dramatic
>dialogue can be simply the unedited or edited conversation of principles.
>There is
>also considerable drama in unalloyed theory especially if you find
>juxtaposable
>materials. Building a dialectic with primary materials of all stripes whether
>mathematical, philosophical/historical, philosophical/methodological,
>epistemological etc. I find to be the most exhilarating, demanding and
>interesting
>way to work. Thus my sense of the dramatic encompasses more than you're
>implying,
>but there is ample demonstration of all of these techniques in my work as
>well as
>Pound's. I would also grant that these form the least accessible and animated
>passages for the reader who has not familiarized himself with the sources.
>Carlo
>Parcelli
>
>I again apologize in advance for any grammatical or spelling errors in my
>email.
>
>Tim Romano wrote:
>
> > Carlo Parcelli wrote:
> >
> > >My use of the notion of "arcane" was meant to be in contra-distinction to
> > >yours.
> >
> > Understood. I meant to give an example of something that was both arcane
> > and, paradoxically, all too relevant. With the example of "statistical
> > probabilities", following upon your example of Nash, the point I hoped to
> > make was that the poet who would use these mathematical facts of
> > contemporary life as the subject of an epic poem would do better to devise
> > a way of presenting the subject *dramatically*. Rather than holding up the
> > "raw and undigested" technicalities themselves, such as by embedding the
> > mathematical formulae into the work, or by alluding to Nash (for sake of
> > example) or quoting from his works, the poet should attempt to show their
> > *effects*.  This is, of course, merely an opinion of mine. I happen to
> > think Pound is at his best when he finds a way to dramatize.
> >
> > >[...] with the rise of hundreds of scientific and technical
> specialties not
> > >to mention specialties outside of these two general disciplines we have
> > >"arcana",
> > >if you will, which profoundly effect the utility of our everyday lives. In
> > >large
> > >part Pound sought, mistakenly, a return to a culture not as reliant on
> > >'specialties.'
> >
> > Not sure I would put it exactly that way, but yes, Pound sought to return
> > to a culture organized around crafts and trades where the principle of
> > *individual workmanship* still had meaning.  I doubt he would have thought
> > too highly of the work of someone who measured the probabilities of 50-year
> > weather patterns to arrive at a trading price for puts and calls on
> > degree-day insurance policies and weather derivatives.
> >
> > >I [...] sought to put myself in the center of the concern for the everyday
> > >arcana that
> > >is science and technology. Your email seems to suggest that to engage this
> > >arcana
> > >in its original forms violates some sort of communication with the poetry
> > >reader.
> > >Let's leave aside the obligation of the reader because, generally,
> this is one
> > >'obligation' the reader has no intention of meeting.
> >
> > Isn't there a typo above? Didn't you mean to write "obligation *to* the
> > reader..." ? Or did you?  "Of" or "to" -- is the crux of the
> > issue.  Thinking of the poet's obligation *to* the reader, I wrote that the
> > poet must subordinate exposition to drama.  Not because difficult
> > "technical" subjects are not valid subjects for poetry -- the effects of
> > science and technology upon our lives is, of course, a valid subject for
> > poetry-- but should readers *of poetry* find themselves reading a primer on
> > statistical methods?  Poems and primers both may instruct; poem must also
> > *delight*.
> > Or do you have in mind a modern equivalent to, say, those ancient poems,
> > little more than mnemonic devices really, that seek to fix in the memory
> > arcane (yet relevant!) lore on the medicinal powers of plants and stones?
> >
> > Tim Romano

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