Robert, thank you for your reply. I agree with you about the two lines
of Confucianism. The opening up then demarcating of boundaries makes a
lot of sense as well.
I am also interested in comparing Pound to Zhu Xi. Zhu Xi appears to
me to be an "epic poet" of Chinese culture. I think Pound would have
appreciated Zhu Xi's interest in the classics, memorization of the
text, reciting the text, meditation of the text, and continuing (or
re-creating) the tradition. Are you familiar with Zhu Xi? He's as
controversial as Pound. I haven't even begun, but how would you
compare the two?
Thanks again,
Kristen Stevens
--- Robert Kibler <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I would say that Pound was greatly concerned for the human
> condition, and so a Humanist.
> But he was at least double-minded in his Humanism--a term that really
> is as abstract as is freedom, I think.
> On the one hand, Pound believed in the need for a great opening up
> of boundaries, principles,
> freedoms. On the other, he clearly believed in demarcating
> boundaries, borders, principles, freedoms.
> In this way, he was like most of us--only all of his intellectual
> motion towards this or that extreme is
> recorded, live, in his prose and cantos.
> Confucianism likewise contains many precepts that suggest an
> opening up of the boundaries of
> the social being, and also many precepts that would see the social
> being as something prescribed by
> traditions, rituals, rules. Like all Eastern philosophies, it is
> polymorphous--but really, there are
> two strong lines of Confucian development through time. The one is
> represented by the works
> of Mencius, and are embraced and promoted by the 11th century
> Neo-Confucians; the other is represented
> by the works of Hsun-tzu, whose Confucian ideas concerning tradition,
> order, ritual, and a precise definition of
> terminology were embraced and promoted by the Legalists and other
> conservative groups.
> Pound most often praised Mencius, but more often followed the
> conservatism represented by
> Hsun-tzu. Mary Cheadle, in her work on Pound's Confucian
> translations, notes that someone warned Pound
> of following in the heels of a Confucianism articulated by
> Hsun-tzu--but as usual, it seems, Pound gave little
> heed. That conservatism has clear links to a despotism in China that
> has probably caused a sufficient
> amount of human suffering through time to compare it to Nazism and
> Fascism. Yet for the most part--
> excepting the extremely oppressive period of the Legalists, its
> doctrines have humanity writ all through them.
> If you set aside Hitler's claim that Jews are not human (to be sure,
> I am not recommending that anyone do so)
> so does his Mein Kampf--or at least what I have read of it.
>
>
> >>> K Stevens <[log in to unmask]> 12/09 2:33 PM >>>
> I thought that Pound was interested in Confucianism because the ideal
> Confucian was like a humanist. Like Sigismundo, Confucians wanted to
> participate in the political, artistic, and religious rituals of
> their
> time. Caring for the family brought about political prosperity.
> Similar in some ways to Plato's Republic?
>
> One of the most significant things about Pound and his Cantos is that
> the artist should not ignore politics, that the politician should not
> ignore economics, that the economist should read poetry. Sorry for
> this oversimplification, but I would like to know more about Pound's
> possible humanism and its relationship to his interpretation of
> Confucianism?
>
> Many thanks,
> Kristen Stevens
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