Peter,
I subscribe to many computer-software-related groups. It is not unusual for
people whose first language is not English and, more importantly, whose
writing systems are non-Western (people, e.g., from Korea, China, Taiwan, or
from countries where one of the Arabic languages is spoken) will submit
their messages entirely in upper case, simply because it's easier for them
to do it that way, given the difficulties of international character sets
and keyboard mappings.
Tim Romano
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Bi <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, 19 Oct 1999 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: know thy kulture 101
 
 
> Tim:
>
> how did you get the conclusion "... especially from the Middle East and
> Asia..." ? Can you post an example here ?
>
>
> Peter Bi
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim Romano <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 4:39 AM
> Subject: Re: know thy kulture 101
>
>
> > Sarab Nihal Singh,
> > In a discussion that is already very difficult because the holocaust is
> its
> > backdrop, the way you have asked this question is perverse. But in case
> your
> > knowledge of English is not very good,  "What the fuck..." can be an
> > insulting way of phrasing a question -- though, in a bar-room or
> fraternity
> > house, one might say "What the fuck is going on here, guys?" and the
> > question would be taken to be friendly and jocular. Also, the use of all
> > UPPER-CASE LETTERS is usually understood to be the written equivalent of
> > SHOUTING, though I notice that many non-English speakers, especially
from
> > the Middle East and Asia, often use upper-case and do not intend to be
> > understood as shouting.
> >
> > To answer your question, 'miztzvah' when used in everyday speech (that
is,
> > not in a theological discussion) might be translated as 'good deed' or
> > 'generous act'.
> > Tim Romano
> >
> > P.S. So, if your intent was to be insulting, you should apologize to the
> > members of this forum. If your were honestly asking a question, let us
> know,
> > and others more knowledgeable than I am about Jewish culture may wish to
> > elaborate on 'mitzvah.'
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Sarab Nihal Singh <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, 19 Oct 1999 12:27 AM
> > Subject: know thy kulture 101
> >
> >
> > > WHAT THE FUCK IS THE MITZVA ?
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Jonathan P. Gill" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > >Reply-To: Ezra Pound discussion list of the University of Maine
> > > >  <[log in to unmask]>
> > > >To: [log in to unmask]
> > > >Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism: getting started understanding it
> > > >Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:37:00 -0400
> > > >
> > > >Fellow Poundians:
> > > >
> > > >I fear from Tim Romano's letter that some of us may be getting our
> > > >knowledge of Judaism from Pound--a very bad idea.
> > > >
> > > >As regards interest and gentiles, the Hebrew Scriptures have hundreds
> of
> > > >laws, articulated in a variety of confusing ways (hence the
secondary,
> > > >tertiary legal literature). For every rule that talks about charging
> > > >interest only to gentiles, there's one that says Jews are obligated
to
> > > >treat gentiles better than fellow Jews.
> > > >
> > > >As for alleged Jewish shame about coition, this seems to be some sort
> of
> > > >retroactive Pauline or Augustine influence.  Far from being
considered
> a
> > > >bad thing, sex is part of man's side of the covenant--every observant
> Jew
> > > >knows that heterosexual intercourse in considered a
mitzvah--especially
> > on
> > > >the Sabbath!
> > > >
> > > >I'm not blind to the restrictions in Jewish law on other kinds of sex
> > > >(homosexuality, onanism, etc.)--but I suspect that, as usual, Pound
was
> > > >alot closer to the Jews on this issue that he was willing to admit.
> > > >
> > > >By the way, I'd like to hear from Leon Surette more often on this
list.
> > > >For now, I wonder how he compares his own view of Pound's
"conversion"
> to
> > > >anti-semitism (apologies for the paraphrase) to that of Wendy Flory,
> who
> > > >dates it to 1935 and gives Ethiopia as the reason.
> > > >
> > > >Jonathan Gill
> > > >Columbia University
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Mon, 18 Oct 1999, Tim Romano wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Tim,
> > > > > I won't suggest any literature that addresses your basic
> > incomprehension
> > > >of
> > > > > the related hatreds. But hatred (racial, tribal, etc) does not
seem
> > > > > unnatural to me -- it seems more the anthropological rule than the
> > > > > exception.  The Jews considered themselves the Chosen Race.
African
> > > >tribes
> > > > > massacre each other. Many Koreans despise whites. The Japanese
> > consider
> > > > > themselves superior. Many whites consider blacks to be inferior.
The
>
> > > >ancient
> > > > > Saxons thought the dark-skinned Britons were an inferior race. Not
a
> > > >modern
> > > > > phenomenon by any means.  Genocide is nothing new. These feelings
> are
> > > > > perhaps instinctual.
> > > > >
> > > > > But I have not encountered anything that I would regard as racial
or
> > > >tribal
> > > > > hatred in Pound's writings, though I've yet to read the Agresti
> > letters
> > > >and
> > > > > am not very far into Pound's wartime radio broadcasts, and maybe
> there
> > > >is
> > > > > evidence of this kind of hatred to be found in the things I
haven't
> > read
> > > > > yet. In one of his wartime broadcasts, Pound actually speaks out
> > against
> > > >the
> > > > > physical stereotyping of the Japanese in Zukor's animated
cartoons.
> > > > >
> > > > > In what I have read of his, Pound's "anti-Semiticism" is
> > > > > culturally/economically based.  Deuteronomy permits the Jews when
> > > > > moneylending to charge interest to Gentiles only. Pound had great
> > > >antipathy
> > > > > for Jewish monotheism and the shame in which it shrouds the human
> act
> > of
> > > > > coition. There are things one might reasonably hate about Jewish
> > culture
> > > > > which have nothing to do with racial or tribal hatred, or hatred
of
> > any
> > > > > individual human being who happens to have been raised as a Jew,
> just
> > as
> > > >one
> > > > > might despise the practice of female infanticide or female genital
> > > > > mutilation or the chopping off of the hands of petty thieves or
the
> > use
> > > >of
> > > > > the flagellum.  Some cultures are more humane than others, if not
> more
> > > > > human.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tim Romano
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Tim Bray <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > Sent: Monday, 18 Oct 1999 12:27 AM
> > > > > Subject: Anti-Semitism: getting started understanding it
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > As a well-read non-humanist in his 40s who has spent time in the
> > third
> > > > > > world and seen tribal hate at work, the problem I have with all
> the
> > > > > holocaust
> > > > > > literature is that it fails to address my basic incomprehension
as
> > to
> > > >how
> > > > > this
> > > > > > could have happened.  I.e. how intelligent well-educated people
> (eg
> > > >EP,
> > > > > nuts
> > > > > > maybe, smart probably, well-educated definitely) can have
thought
> > such
> > > > > > silly things and done such evil things?  The tribal hate I've
seen
> > > >could
> > > > > not
> > > > > > survive in the absence of real immediate grievance (they killed
my
> > > > > brother)
> > > > > > and the presence of a decent education (history and ethics are
> > > > > complicated).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, on the assumption that people who agonize over EP know
> something
> > > >about
> > > > > > this subject, what would be a good recommendation for literature
> to
> > > > > address
> > > > > > this basic incomprehension? -T.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________________
> > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> > >
> > >
>
>