This goes to both hockey-l and hockey3 because of its relevance...
 
Larry writes:
>  I seem to recall a discussion thread maybe during the 1991 playoffs around
>  divisions, but I could be wrong.  Someone with more time could search
>  hockey-d.
 
I think I remember that too, but then again, things seem to change from year
to year anyway!
 
>  I think the ECAC has two "Divisions" (note the capital "D").  The ECAC
>  Division I division (little "d") includes the likes of Clarkson and RPI.
>  The ECAC Division III has (at least) two divisions, the ECAC East and ECAC
>  West.
 
I don't think it is quite right to call it the ECAC DivIII.  The ECAC DivI
is correct because all of the teams are DivI (although the schools themselves
may not be, as you pointed out).  In the ECAC East/West/North/South/SUNY,
teams range from being DivI-II-III.  I think of most ECAC East/West/SUNY
teams as being of "DivII" caliber and of most ECAC North/South teams as
being of "DivIII" caliber, although this isn't quite the right way to
refer to them.
 
>  Rochester Institute of Technology is in the same division as
>  Plattsburgh and Canisius - the ECAC West (actually, Plattsburgh is a SUNY -
>  State Univ. of NY - college, so I guess it will now be in the newly-formed
>  ECAC SUNY division).
 
Yes, my understanding is that Plattsburgh, Oswego, Cortland, Fredonia,
Potsdam, Geneseo, and Brockport - the seven remaining NC$$ hockey-playing
SUNY schools - have left the ECAC West but are still in the ECAC under the
banner of ECAC SUNY.  This is because the SUNYAC tournament was expanded to
two weekends, making it impossible for the SUNY schools to compete in both
the SUNYAC tourney and the ECAC West tourney.
 
I think this makes sense because the SUNYAC winner already got an automatic
bid to the DivIII tourney.  Now it would be only fair to add automatic bids
to the ECAC East and West winners, too.  Note that now the ECAC East, West,
and SUNY will all have their own separate tourneys with no unified champion.
There used to be an ECAC East-West champ until several years ago.
 
However, after the ECAC North and South tourneys, there IS a unified ECAC
North-South title game.  You figure it out.  Maybe time restraints due to
the upcoming DivIII tourney play a part.
 
I don't know for sure if Union has 5 yrs to upgrade all programs to DivI.
Hopefully one of the Union faithful who knows will answer this.
 
>  I think the fact
>  that the league name "ECAC" is used across Divisions is a point of
>  confusion.
 
Perhaps not that the name is used, but how it is used and what it really
means.  Once you realize that the ECAC "Non-DivI" is made up of teams from
across all divisions with similarly-talented hockey teams, it becomes easier
to understand.
 
>  I am not sure what Division (I, II, III, ???) Canisius College as a whole is
>  labeled by the NC$$.  They do have a Div. I baskatball program, don't they?
 
Yes - last I knew, they were in the ECAC North Atlantic in hoop (at least,
they were a few years ago, but the ECAC NAC underwent a major overhaul a
couple of years ago).  Canisius is considered to be a DivI school.
 
>  The impression I get from the original notes (from Dr. Roth?) is that they
>  are a Div. I school that fields a Div. III hockey program, and thus cannot
>  particiapte in the NC$$ playoffs.
 
Almost - they *can* participate, but only at the DivI level.  You can play
in tourneys above your school's division but not below.  However, additional
stipulations upon those schools declaring for the DivI tourney force the
playing of 20 games against DivI schools, and Canisius has never come close
to this.
 
As I have mentioned before, two new rules in 1989-90 forced the elimination of
situations in which a team could remain in the ECAC "non-I" and still make
the DivI tourney - also known as the "Anti-Merrimack Legislation".  At that
time there was a 38-game limit for DivI teams.  Merrimack was running away
with the ECAC East (66-4-0 in three years) but also challenging for the
DivI Independent bid which it earned in 1988.  DivI wanted teams like
Merrimack to earn their way in (MC was playing a full ECAC East schedule plus
about ten games vs. DivI competition - many fewer than the "real" DivI teams),
so it put in the 20-game rule.  And the ECAC East wanted Merrimack out because
it was too good, so it required teams to also play 20 ECAC East/West games
(Merrimack played only 18 in 1988-89).  20+20 is > 38, so a choice had to be
made, although theoretically I suppose they could have gone to Alaska for
two games every year, but the school itself frowned upon playing even 35 games
when the program entered Hockey East and I doubt it would have accepted 40.
 
By the way, in case anyone was wondering why Canisius can't play in the
DivIII tourney but RPI can play in the DivI tourney, consider the hypothetical
case of Big State U. which is DivI but whose hockey team has struggled for
years in DivI.  Without the regulation I spoke of, BSU could simply drop
down to DivIII and win championship after championship.  But if Small State U.
has had pretty good success in DivIII and wants to play with the big boys,
well, there's no harm in that.
 
This regulation exists across all sports; hockey is an aberration because
there is such a large percentage of teams playing outside their divisions.
For the most part, this rule does what it was intended to do - allow the
"small" schools to compete at a level separate from the big schools.
 
>  I know there are some schools in New
>  England states that cannot play in the NC$$ playoffs because their local
>  division (little "d") says they cannot.  (Mike M. - support me here?)
 
This is true; despite playing in the ECAC E/W/N/S/SE/N-by-NW :-), schools
are also in their own "conferences" just like the Ivies in the ECAC I.  And
some of those conferences prohibit teams from playing past certain dates.
That automatically lets them out of any NC$$ competition.  I believe that
Middlebury is an example of such a school which otherwise may have qualified
for the DivIII tourney at least once recently.
 
Now that we have spent so much time talking about the ECAC :-), I'd be
interested to hear someone in the know talk about the structure of the
Western DivII-III conferences like the NCHA.  Who the teams are, where
the schools are, is there as much confusion as there is with the ECAC in
the East...
 
 
- mike