As an image it represents the tip of the discriminatory iceberg.  Granted
much of it is historical.  In the U.S., laws were passed that discriminated
against Irish.  Many / most were here because of the famine in Ireland
that killed one million people.  The impact of that famine was
immeasurably helped by a British government that basically refused to
help, passed laws that greatly impeded help, and continued to export
what little food was being grown in Ireland to continue getting export
dollars and to keep food prices down in England.

Doug Peterson
(not Irish myself)

On 6 Aug 2005 at 23:16, Michael Rose wrote:

I must have much more to be concerned about than being offended by a
simple nickname.  Do people that you meet every day assume you like to
fight because you are Irish?  I suppose I haven't met those people.
So people associate drinking with being Irish, so what, maybe it is an
excuse for people of Irish descent to blame their problems on.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean Pickett" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: NCAA bans Indian mascots, nicknames from postseason
events


> My ancestry is 62.5% Irish and I enjoy Irish culture very much (my
> favorite sport, more than ice hockey, is hurling).  I find the
> "Fighting" in Irish to be very offensive and see no need for it (I
> also see no need for it in any nickname).
>
> Sean
>
> On 6 Aug 2005 at 19:54, Ken Kretsch wrote:
>
>> I remember hearing an individual on TV once - I believe he was on
>> Charlie Rose - and as I recall the argument goes something like
>> this:
>>
>> The European Americans did their utmost to exterminate Indian
> Culture
>> on the North American continent, from which the Indians never have,
>> nor probably ever will recover. What the Indians find offensive is
>> that, as they see it, the only thing we palefaces seem to value is
>> their stereotype for aggression as a symbol of our sports teams.
>> (Building dioramas of Indian villages to decorate casino lobbies
>> doesn't count.)
>>
>> This argument probably doesn't hold for the Irish, who have
> flourished
>> in modern times (granted after many decades of second class
>> citizenship.) Further, we value Irish culture; we drink Irish
>> beverages, sing Irish songs, listen to Irish tenors, read Irish
>> literature, and every March 17th, we're all Irish!! True, this is
>> somewhat superficial, but it's more that what we do for the culture
> of
>> the aboriginal North Americans.
>>
>> Note that this is not my argument, although I sympathize with it.
>> Interestingly enough, the guest on the show, a member of the Lakota
>> tribe, as I recall, said that the term "Native American" is not
> seen
>> as an improvement over "Indian". Among themselves the Indians refer
> to
>> their nation, e.g., "He's Lakota" or "She's Mahican".
>>
>> Ken
>