Rowe, Thomas wrote:
>   Sports teams are supposed to be
> aggressive, to be fighters, and being aggressive (at least in sports)
> has positive value in our society.  Hence, being called "fighting"
> anything is hardly an offensive use of the adjective.  This all boils
> down to the term "Sioux" as part of their nickname.  Correct me if I am
> wrong, but Sioux refers to a group of native American tribes and isn't
> their name for themselves - its one the white man gave them.  Hence,
> can it be said they truly own exclusive rights to that name?  But I
> digress - I just don't see calling a sports team "The Fighting [pick a
> term]" as pejorative.  
>
>   


I think the observation that "fighting" has greater appropriateness for 
sports teams than the term should otherwise enjoy is a good point.  On 
the other hand, though this may seem like a fine distinction, cannot a 
term which is not pejorative be legitimately offensive to those referred 
to?  Doesn't determination of offensiveness reside in the eye of the 
referred to so long as there's some legitimate room to question the 
intentions of the referrer?  Does the act of coinage assign exclusive 
rights to unlimited use of the term?  I doubt that American Indians 
coined "Chippewa " or "Seminole" or "Redskin", but the source is 
irrelevant.  Those referred to understand the reference.

It strikes me that whether we can distinguish the degrees of 
pejorativity of "Fighting Irish" and "Fighting Sioux" might depend on 
when we ask the question.  Let's go back 100 years and ask whether 
there's justification for the Irish to feel offended while there's still 
such a contemptuous attitude in much of American society that mere 
mention of "Irish" carries widespread, unjustified contempt.  Then 
return to today.  Do we have parallel histories of assimilation and 
acceptance for the Irish and Native Americans?  Get in your car and 
drive out to an Irish reservation maintained by the federal Bureau of 
Irish Affairs and ask what the residents think.

There's one appropriate alternative for use of  the term "Fighting 
Sioux" I haven't yet heard.  Like "Fighting Irish", "Fighting Sioux" 
might be appropriate when Native Americans have no likely reason to take 
offense because they've been fully assimilated into our society and 
actually enjoy the same rights and prosperity as everyone else.  Perhaps 
use of "Fighting Sioux" should merely be suspended for, say, 50 or 100 
years.  Of course, whenever the time comes to reinstate it, there'll 
always be a few hard asses who'll fight tooth and nail to cling to 
"Fighting NoDaks" or "Fighting Honkies from the Land of Barren Winter 
Waste" or whatever serves in the interim.

Bob Griebel
Land of the Fighting Ottowas, Sauk, Hurons, Potowatomies, Chippewas, 
Germans, Polish, and Irish  (till some were driven out or put on 
reservations)