I too am of the same opinion that Tom and Cathy are.  And like Cathy, I 
did not know that the North Dakota Indian Tribes were against the logo. 
  My understanding, too, was that they did not mind its use.

However (and we all know this), I think the NCAA are a bunch of 
hypocrites!  If they REALLY believed in this rule with their hearts and 
souls, then there should be NO chance to appeal at all.  Even if the 
tribes have no problem with the logo.    But then, I suppose someone at 
the ACLU would get involved and say that if a tribe DID like the use of 
the logo, then the NCAA rule was deterring the promotion of the Indian 
culture.

I don't have the e-mail anymore, but I believe someone sent the NCAA 
bylaws out to us.  I don't remember reading anywhere in their articles 
that they had the right to get into national social debates.  So to me, 
they should not be involved in this discussion at all.

Kathy M.
(Tampa)
Go Gophers!




On Friday, September 30, 2005, at 08:44  AM, Spreeman, Cathryn wrote:

> Well, for what it is worth, I mostly agree with Tom.  However, the
> tipping point in this particular controversy is, as indicated in the
> prior emails, the disapproval by the tribes themselves.  That was news
> to me.  I was under the impression that the tribes supported the use of
> the name and logo.
>
>
> Cathy Spreeman
> UNH 72
> Go 'Cats! (safe name, as long as we don't drag the stuffed wildcat out
> of storage and parade it around...offending PETA et al.)
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: - Hockey-L - The College Hockey Discussion List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Rowe, Thomas
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:34 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: UND
>
> OK - I guess I will make a horse's rear of myself.
>
> I find the "controversy" stupid.  I could understand why Chief Wahoo of
> the Cleveland Indians would be offensive, but I really don't understand
> what is so wrong with the "Fighting Sioux."  What is different from the
> "Fighting Irish?"  The little banty-rooster caricature that Notre Dame
> uses is more offensive than the logo of North Dakota.  In my opinion,
> you can't go after one if you don't go after the other or all of them.
> I misdoubt there is a logo anywhere that doesn't offend someone.
> Picking an Indian logo in a State with a significant Indian population 
> -
> what's the problem?  They didn't name themselves the "Cowardly Sioux"
> did they?  Fighting applied to a sports team, to me at least, is a
> compliment, not a slur.
>
> Yes, I understand I am on the politically wrong side of this issue.  
> But
> I think having schools change logos, especially long standing ones 
> (over
> 70 years in this case) to be politically correct and to use coercive
> tactics to do it is both dumb and wrong.  It is also hypocritical given
> the only target of this initiative is Indian nicknames.
>
> That's my opinion.  I don't expect it to be popular.
>
> Tom Rowe
> Former Mizzou Tiger, Western Illinois U. Leatherneck, and U. of South
> Dakota Coyote.
>