Scott Quakkelaar wrote:
 
> let's look at what we're saying.  we're holding the referees responsible
> for whatever stupid things the players choose to do after an hour and a
> half of being held and slashed.
 
Are the referees wholly responsible for players' stupid antics?  Of course not.
The player himself is ultimately in control of his actions, although everyone
from the AD to the coach to the teammates ultimately play a part in molding the
actions during a game.  It is the escalation of the frequency and magnitude of
slashes, etc. that can be linked to the referee (and the assistant refs who
have not yet evolved to the point where they are comfortable in making calls
other than icing and offsides, IMO.
 
> welcome to the game of hockey.  while i agree it's under the ref's job
> description to do his/her best to keep the game under control, the ref
> cannot be held responsible for a bench-clearing brawl.  i am personally
> very tired of hearing "it was a good game, but the refs sucked."
 
In many (not all) cases, bench-clearing brawls occur because the referees did
not establish control of the game from the start.  A trip or a few slashes go
unpenalized, then its a cross-check or a high stick, elbow, whatever.  If this
is a one-sided affair, the team taking the cheap shots is going to get more
than just a little aggravated by the time the final buzzer sounds.  The result:
a boilover at the conclusion of the game.  The Referee MUST set the tone of the
game early, else we all suffer the consequences.
 
> at some point, the responsibility must come back to the players, the
> coaches, the AD's, the league, and maybe the NCAA.
 
Absolutely.  But it's been my experience that the supervising (off-ice)
referees rarely take any action even in the most blatently obvious on-ice
mistakes.  Not being omniscient, I don't have enough facts for a logical
conclusion, but on the surface, IMO, there is a lack of backbone in some of the
people who are in the best position to make a difference.
 
> why is dennis rodman still playing basketball.  if he were an actor and
> he kicked a cameraman, he'd be going to court.  it's my understanding
> that a certain coach at a certain level has told his home refs to give a
> double minor and a 10-minute misconduct for fighting
 
> ****** "because the fans like it." ******
 
I know of no referee worth his stripes that would follow the instructions of
the home (or away) coach in any matter, and I would venture to guess that the
referees in question did not act upon the request.
 
> the league could certainly impose a penalty for lacouture's elbow last
> week after reviewing the tape.  seems to me that it would discourage
> reckless play (i'm not saying what he did was vicious, but maybe
> careless.  i didn't see it).  but it goes unpunished.
 
It might discourage reckless play for awhile, but these things tend to have a
short "half-life" quality to them, meaning that they are in the spotlight and
on everyone's minds for only a short time before they fade and are ultimately
forgotten.  No different in the NHL which has an even broader audience.
 
> what happens if you take the violence from the game?  you risk losing
> $$$ at the ticket counter and the concession stand because people who
> come just to see the violence become bored and aren't willing to spend
> the money anymore.
 
I have been a fan for 22 seasons, and while I have known several people who
like to attend "just for the fights," the majority that I have met or seen at
games are much like myself: I want to see a good, aggressively-played game.  A
well-executed check is a beautiful thing, as are the finesse plays and skillful
goals.  Take a hard stand against fighting and you'll lose a few fans; take all
the aggressive play out and you'll indeed lose most of the fans, including
myself, because you will no longer have a hockey game by any stretch of the
imagination.  Maybe it's different back east...I can only speak of my
experiences in the WCHA.
 
> i haven't seen too many games up north because i've been absent for
> the past three years, but the games i've seen elsewhere have had
> the most ruthless, idiotic, clueless fans i've ever seen.
 
I haven't traveled to enough "away" games to draw a concise opinion, but I can
say that each team's home crowd have varying degrees of enthusiasm and
obnoxiousness.  But everyone feels the other guy is an idiot to some extent--
that's the psychology of the true fan.  For most people, that attitude remains
at the arena long after we have left.
 
> so, to make a long dissertation short, let's stop holding the refs
> responsible and put some back where it belongs, on the players and
> coaches.
 
But let's not absolve the referees of any responsibility.  The coach may
control his/her players, but the ref controls the game.  The referee has the
power to draw a line in the sand (okay, the ice); if he chooses not to do so,
then he/she is partly to blame for any negative results.  Although it is true
that it all starts with the player(s), the ref should decide where it should
end.
 
> i welcome any and all rebuttals.  if you're going to flame me, please
> e-mail me privately.
 
Just my humble opinions.
 
> :
> : Paul Gentile wrote:
> :
> : When teams are allowed to bend and violate the rules to bring another team
> : down to their level of play, and the refs don't make the calls, frustration
> : sets in for the better team.  I saw it in the UNH-Maine game in the
> : Governors' Cup and the UNH game at Lowell last month.  What all parties did
> : at the end of the game Saturday nite is inexcusable but things do not
> : happen in a vacuum.  Minor incidents can snowball into bigger ones and if
> : the refs don't nip things in the bud, the situation can explode, just like
> : it did Saturday night.
 
I agree completely, as hopefully demonstrated above.
> <snip, snip>
 
RC
 
 ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
 Randall Collander                            President,
 NOAA/ERL/FSL                                 Denver-Boulder Chapter of the
 325 Broadway R/E/FS1                         American Meteorological Society
 Boulder CO 80303
 (303) 497-5960                                   Trophy...schmophy...
 [log in to unmask]                        The CC Tigers RULE the ice!!!
 
 Chandler: "We sure showed those Hassidic jewelers a thing or two about
 softball."
                                                                      --Friends
 ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
 
HOCKEY-L is for discussion of college ice hockey;  send information to
[log in to unmask], The College Hockey Information List.