My Webster's has "mitzvah" (1. a commandment or precept, as in the Bible
or from the rabbis 2. an act fulfilling such a command or the spirit of
such commands).  It doesn't, however, have "fuck."
 
On a more worthwhile note, Pound's affiliation with Zukofsky is worthy of
an extended study, especially now that we have Barry Ahearn's excellent
volume of the letters.  Is that too narrow for an MLA panel?
 
Jonathan Gill
Columbia University
 
 
 
 
 
On Mon, 18 Oct 1999, Sarab Nihal Singh wrote:
 
> WHAT THE FUCK IS THE MITZVA ?
>
>
> >From: "Jonathan P. Gill" <[log in to unmask]>
> >Reply-To: Ezra Pound discussion list of the University of Maine
> >  <[log in to unmask]>
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism: getting started understanding it
> >Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:37:00 -0400
> >
> >Fellow Poundians:
> >
> >I fear from Tim Romano's letter that some of us may be getting our
> >knowledge of Judaism from Pound--a very bad idea.
> >
> >As regards interest and gentiles, the Hebrew Scriptures have hundreds of
> >laws, articulated in a variety of confusing ways (hence the secondary,
> >tertiary legal literature). For every rule that talks about charging
> >interest only to gentiles, there's one that says Jews are obligated to
> >treat gentiles better than fellow Jews.
> >
> >As for alleged Jewish shame about coition, this seems to be some sort of
> >retroactive Pauline or Augustine influence.  Far from being considered a
> >bad thing, sex is part of man's side of the covenant--every observant Jew
> >knows that heterosexual intercourse in considered a mitzvah--especially on
> >the Sabbath!
> >
> >I'm not blind to the restrictions in Jewish law on other kinds of sex
> >(homosexuality, onanism, etc.)--but I suspect that, as usual, Pound was
> >alot closer to the Jews on this issue that he was willing to admit.
> >
> >By the way, I'd like to hear from Leon Surette more often on this list.
> >For now, I wonder how he compares his own view of Pound's "conversion" to
> >anti-semitism (apologies for the paraphrase) to that of Wendy Flory, who
> >dates it to 1935 and gives Ethiopia as the reason.
> >
> >Jonathan Gill
> >Columbia University
> >
> >
> >
> >On Mon, 18 Oct 1999, Tim Romano wrote:
> >
> > > Tim,
> > > I won't suggest any literature that addresses your basic incomprehension
> >of
> > > the related hatreds. But hatred (racial, tribal, etc) does not seem
> > > unnatural to me -- it seems more the anthropological rule than the
> > > exception.  The Jews considered themselves the Chosen Race. African
> >tribes
> > > massacre each other. Many Koreans despise whites. The Japanese consider
> > > themselves superior. Many whites consider blacks to be inferior. The
> >ancient
> > > Saxons thought the dark-skinned Britons were an inferior race. Not a
> >modern
> > > phenomenon by any means.  Genocide is nothing new. These feelings are
> > > perhaps instinctual.
> > >
> > > But I have not encountered anything that I would regard as racial or
> >tribal
> > > hatred in Pound's writings, though I've yet to read the Agresti letters
> >and
> > > am not very far into Pound's wartime radio broadcasts, and maybe there
> >is
> > > evidence of this kind of hatred to be found in the things I haven't read
> > > yet. In one of his wartime broadcasts, Pound actually speaks out against
> >the
> > > physical stereotyping of the Japanese in Zukor's animated cartoons.
> > >
> > > In what I have read of his, Pound's "anti-Semiticism" is
> > > culturally/economically based.  Deuteronomy permits the Jews when
> > > moneylending to charge interest to Gentiles only. Pound had great
> >antipathy
> > > for Jewish monotheism and the shame in which it shrouds the human act of
> > > coition. There are things one might reasonably hate about Jewish culture
> > > which have nothing to do with racial or tribal hatred, or hatred of any
> > > individual human being who happens to have been raised as a Jew, just as
> >one
> > > might despise the practice of female infanticide or female genital
> > > mutilation or the chopping off of the hands of petty thieves or the use
> >of
> > > the flagellum.  Some cultures are more humane than others, if not more
> > > human.
> > >
> > > Tim Romano
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Tim Bray <[log in to unmask]>
> > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Sent: Monday, 18 Oct 1999 12:27 AM
> > > Subject: Anti-Semitism: getting started understanding it
> > >
> > >
> > > > As a well-read non-humanist in his 40s who has spent time in the third
> > > > world and seen tribal hate at work, the problem I have with all the
> > > holocaust
> > > > literature is that it fails to address my basic incomprehension as to
> >how
> > > this
> > > > could have happened.  I.e. how intelligent well-educated people (eg
> >EP,
> > > nuts
> > > > maybe, smart probably, well-educated definitely) can have thought such
> > > > silly things and done such evil things?  The tribal hate I've seen
> >could
> > > not
> > > > survive in the absence of real immediate grievance (they killed my
> > > brother)
> > > > and the presence of a decent education (history and ethics are
> > > complicated).
> > > >
> > > > So, on the assumption that people who agonize over EP know something
> >about
> > > > this subject, what would be a good recommendation for literature to
> > > address
> > > > this basic incomprehension? -T.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
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