Can Pound's monetary beliefs be stated; Pound did not support the gold
standard, nor did
he object to fiat money, but believed a nation's currency should be issued
interest free and
be a demurrage currency? Would not this resolve a currency system that must
terminate itself?

It appears to me the technology was not available during Pound's lifetime to
implement
such a monetary system in an industrial society, but now technology exists
and can be
implemented within a paperless monetary system.

There are approximately sixty local currency systems in the U.S., Canada and
other
locations which are interest free, some having employed a demurrage
currency. Does these
reflect Pound's monetary ideal?

Gerald Steen
[log in to unmask]



----- Original Message -----
From: "charles moyer" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: value / money /interest-bearing debt


> Even more sobering than these questions does it follow that any economy
> which is sustained by a currency which is based in interest-bearing debt
> must ultimately and logically terminate itself under insoluble debt?
>
> CDM
>
> ----------
> >From: Gerald Steen <[log in to unmask]>
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: value / money / debt
> >Date: Wed, Dec 27, 2000, 2:58 PM
> >
>
> > Discussion has been on debt, but I would appreciate a discussion on the
> > interest and the impact to the monetary system. Lets say debt of
$100,000 is
> > created at 8% interest over 20 years. A $100,000 of interest will have
to be
> > paid also. Doesn't this mean that only a $100,000 is placed in
circulation
> > whereas $200,000 has to be repaid? Where does the other $100,000 come
from?
> > As someone stated, if all debt would be repaid, there would be no money
> > left. Doesn't this means that when all the money is paid back, only 50%
of
> > the debt is paid.
> >
> > Gerald Steen
> > Program  Manager, retired
> > E-System Raytheon
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dirk Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 11:19 AM
> > Subject: Re: value / money / debt
> >
> >
> >> When the Fed buys a government security (i.e., lends money to the
> > government
> >> -- public debt) or lends to a member bank (for the purpose of
increasing
> >> that bank's fractional reserve so that bank can make loans) throught
the
> >> discount window (private debt), money is created.  This money is not
even
> >> printed until it becomes a currency demand (you go to an ATM).  It
simply
> >> exists as computer entries.
> >>
> >> When the Fed sells government securities (redeems public debt) or is
paid
> >> back by a member bank, money is destroyed (i.e., the computer entries
are
> >> "balanced" -- deleted).
> >>
> >> All money (a concept that includes "all currency" but which exceeds
"all
> >> currency") in circulation results from the Fed buying securities
(lending
> > to
> >> the government) and lending to banks (to individuals and corporations).
> > The
> >> "reserve" of "fractional reserve" is really simply an obligation to pay
> > the
> >> Fed.  That is what I meant by debt.  The money does not exist until
> > someone
> >> owes it (either the taxpayers or a borrower).  The money cannot be
> > redeemed
> >> by the issuer in gold or silver or platinum or even oil or toothpaste.
It
> >> only exists as somebody's promise to pay.
> >>
> >> Look at a dollar bill.  Notice that it's called a "Federal Reserve
Note".
> > A
> >> "Note" is by definition a redeemable instrument, but if you send a
dollar
> > to
> >> the Fed and ask them to redeem it, you'll be lucky if they send you
four
> >> quarters (lucky because a quarter at least has SOME value), but they'll
> > more
> >> likely just tell you to get lost, because there IS nothing with which
to
> >> redeem it, except someone else's debt, which will be paid in Federal
> > Reserve
> >> Notes of equal value to the one you possess - someone else's promise to
> > pay.
> >>
> >> Of course, banks make profits on ALL of these transactions.  And when
the
> >> banks go belly-up, we the people give them even more money.  Jim X knew
> > the
> >> score.
> >>
> >> Dirk Johnson
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Tim Romano [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 4:24 AM
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: Re: value / money / debt
> >>
> >>
> >> What is "debt"?
> >> Tim Romano
> >>
> >>
> >> DIrk Johnson wrote:
> >>
> >> [...]    The entire U.S. (and European) system
> >> is based upon debt, not value.  If all debt were paid, under the
current
> >> system of banking, there would be no money at all.
> >>
> >> The money is created from debt and then used as a "reserve" to create
> >> further debt under a fictitious fractional reserve (fictitious because
the
> >> reserve doesn't actually exist except as previous debt), which in turn
is
> >> used as a reserve upon which fractional loans and so forth again and
again
> >> up to, if memory serves me, 23 times, when it exhausts itself.  Of
course,
> >> new debt is simply issued by the government (bonds, bills, notes) and
new
> >> money is printed to buy it and the whole shebang starts again.  Banks
> > charge
> >> interest on all of it. [...]
> >