Here are a series of Greg Ambrose's messages on hockey-l..
[log in to unmask] There are four messages in all and if you respond
please direct them to both [log in to unmask] and
[log in to unmask] (as Shawna did) because that is where the
original thread began and where Ambrose's responses are going.
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MESSAGE #1
>>
>>What possible relevance does the hockey coach have to the average
>student
>>at a university? If Shawn Walsh were to start teaching Geography
>classes,
>>then maybe I would see a connection. If he were taking out thousands of
>>books from the U of Maine's library, and never returning them, then
>maybe I
>>would see it.
>>
>>Six months ago I found myself once again in the process of choosing a
>>university to attend. The factors that I considered were the content of
>>the programs I was interested in, and the location of the schools. Who
>the
>>U of Manitoba's hockey coach was never even crossed my mind. I didn't
>>know who he was until after I got here in September. The U of Regina
>was
>>my second choice, and I still don't know who their hockey coach is. And
>>I'm taking Recreation Studies. If I were taking Economics, I'd care
>even
>>less who the hockey coach is.
>>
>>See you later,
>>John
John:
A common mistake people make when making their case in an arguement is
to
take their personal experience and universalize it, that is, make the
assumption that everyone else thinks like they do.
I'm glad that you chose your college based on certain objective
criteria. I
would like to think that those who rejected Maine did so as well.
UMaine's endorsement of Walsh's indiscretions, and by retaining him as
coach that is what it is, sends the wrong message to those who are
concerned with the ethics of a university.
I am not saying that every student who chose not to go to UMaine based
his
decision on the Walsh fiasco. However, it appears, at least from the
Globe
article, that it was a factor in the decision making process for some
students.
Greg Ambrose
HOCKEY-L is for discussion of college ice hockey; send information to
[log in to unmask], The College Hockey Information List.
=======
Message #2
Paul Gentile writes:
>>It amazes me how quickly people will grasp at
>>anything to serve their own agenda.
Paul, is this my agenda, the Globe's, the president of the student
council
at Maine or the President of the University?
>>One reason among several ... and it wasn't one of
>>the primary reasons. It was just one that the
>>Globe writer enjoyed detailing.
That's your assumption. How do you know he "enjoyed" detailing it. I
would like to think that the reporter is reporting. The article states
that it was just one of many reasons why enrollment (not attendance,
BTW)
has dropped.
>>Says Nelson who is likely some prima donna who is
>>still upset that her presidential edict from a
>>student government council was so horribly
>>rejected by the student body she supposedly
>>represents.
Your assumption.
>>Even Hoff can't understand how this could possibly
>>have an effect.
He's only been there since July, it might take him awhile to get up to
speed on the antics of suspension boy.
>>Surprise, surprise!!! "Strong opposition" from the
>>student body! Sounds like over-whelming support
>>for Walsh to me. "Not solely attributable" sounds
>>like "the real reason lies elsewhere, we just like
>>to write smut!"
First, there is no hyphen in the word overwhelming. Secondly, the
intention of my post was not to write about the students who are at the
university but those who are not, any why they are not. Finally, the
"real
reason lies elsewhere" is possible if you bother to read the Globe
article.
My point is only that, for some people, not all, the University's
endorsement of their coach, who knowingly violated NCAA rules and then
attempted to cover them up sends the wrong ethical message.
>>
>>>>> However, for this observer anyway, it is
>>>>> comforting to know ...
>>
>>Anyone who finds comfort in this type of
>>rhetorical diatribe is obviously emotionally
>>entangled in conflicting sentiments (ie. someone
>>who really wishes deep down that their team could
>>beat Maine in hockey).
Paul, before delving into "emotional entanglements", please let me see
your
degree in psychology. Secondly, if you read the article, you will see
that
it is not rhetorical and certainly not a diatribe. And, BTW, UNH was
3-1
vs. Maine last year with their only loss coming when we were short 8
players (after the Providence melee).
Have a nice life.
Greg Ambrose
HOCKEY-L is for discussion of college ice hockey; send information to
[log in to unmask], The College Hockey Information List.
=====
MESSAGE #3
Dave Wollstadt writes:
>>In short, both the Boston Globe article and Greg Ambrose's trumpeting
>of a
>>couple paragraphs of it reflect a very shallow understanding of what
>has been
>>happening at Orono and in Maine over the past few years.
Thank you for your insights on the the situation at Maine and why
enrollment has dropped. Perhaps you should write a letter to the Globe.
Regardless of the emphasis (or overemphasis) on the hockey scandal, the
point made is that it has had an impact. Or is the Globe that far off
base?
Greg Ambrose
>>
>>HOCKEY-L is for discussion of college ice hockey; send information to
>>[log in to unmask], The College Hockey Information List.
HOCKEY-L is for discussion of college ice hockey; send information to
[log in to unmask], The College Hockey Information List.
=======
MESSAGE #4
>>I truly hope that you are joking
>>the end of the baby boomers meant the end of giant enrollments all
>over the
>>country...Maine charges very high out of state rates and it is coming
>back to
>>bite them.
>>
>>the hockey affair should have meant the enrollment was down by, what
>>4...schoolwide... the number of scholarships lost.
>>
>>jim
#1, I was quoting from an article from the Boston Globe so, if there is
"joking" going on, it's coming from the reporter and the people
(including
the President of the University) quoted in the article. #2 A 25% +
drop in
enrollment in 8 years is obviously due to several factors, I think the
article meant to depict that the hockey scandal is only on of many. To
imply that it is based just on demographics is ludicrous since, if that
were the case, a lot of schools would be having the significant problems
that UMaine is having.
My advice Maine fans, don't be defensive, if Shawn is so great shout his
attributes to the heavens. If this is too much for you, then just keep
quiet!
Greg Ambrose
HOCKEY-L is for discussion of college ice hockey; send information to
[log in to unmask], The College Hockey Information List.
--
Deron Treadwell - [log in to unmask]
University of Maine
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