Re: Cantos 52-71:
 
Well, that's what makes horse racing, Joe.
 
The  Chinese Cantos (52-61) have always ranked among my favorites.
Shall we argue about which one of us has a  deficient
poetry meter in his skull? or shall  we accept
the unliterary heresy that no two nervous systems
apprehend the "same" world, or the  "same" poem?
 
I love the way Pound's English sounds so "Chinese"
and how this dialect plays with and against all the
other dialects and voices in the poem.
 
As for the Adams Cantos: some great bits, some not
so great,but in general  no harder to deal with
than other sections devoted mostly to quotes  from
primary sources. (I like the primary sources
blocks --Malatesta, Jefferson, Monte dei Paschi
etc.-- more and more on each re-reading. Cubist collages
of how important events appeared as they happened.)
 
But I know how you feel. When I first encountered
the drilling log in Williams' *Paterson* I wanted
to cry out like Dr Benway, "Hold! too much!"
 
 
 
 
>Speaking of poetry--The Cantos, I don't feel qualified to discuss such
>specific topics as
>suggested by Peter Campion, but I do have a general, gut-level (an "I
>knows what I
>likes"-type) question, or series of questions, about Cantos 52-71
>(published in a single
>volume in 1940 or thereabouts by Faber, so I'll address them as a unit).
>
>I re-read The Cantos from time to time from beginning to end.  It's a
>voyage I've completed
>about four times now, and I am underway for a fifth time.  On prior treks,
>I recall 52-71
>as the slowest going of all the "sections," but this time (perhaps because
>I'm older and
>time is more precious?) I've run aground, somewhere in the 60's (I can't
>recall exactly
>where; it's been about a month-and-a-half since I last tried to set keel
>to breakers and
>move onward again).  I'd like to skip ahead to the Pisans and just forget
>the rest of this
>volume, but I don't feel right about that, so I just founder here in the
>doldrums.
>
>The questions:  Is there anything redeeming (I won't push it by using the
>term "inspiring")
>about this 52-71 sequence?  Did Pound ever write anything worse?  What
>happened to the keen
>ear and eye, the clear mind, of the poet who wrote the preceding and
>succeeding cantos?
>Are 52-71(setting aside the Italians, 72 and 73) the nadir of Pound's
>poetic output?
>
>Anyone have any thoughts, reactions--reprimands even--on this?
>--- On Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:26:19 -0700  Wayne Pounds <[log in to unmask]>
>wrote:
>D'accordo!
>
>That may sound pretentious but in fact it's sanctioned
>by Master Ez. See Gallup C793.
>
>Talk about the poetry? Sounds radical, but I'm game.
>
>I'll go with the Propertius. I can't answer your
>question. Can you answer mine? EP says there was no
>useful criticism of Propertius anywhere in Europe
>until Laforgue. Why Laforgue?
>
>Wayne
>
>--- "Amy E. Thomas" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> "I love the way "academic" is still used as a
>> catch-all pejorative."
>>
>> You know what? I really do love it in certain ways.
>> Considering that
>> these discussion lists are to address Ezra Pound who
>> had little or no
>> tolerance for contemporary academia, considering
>> that we've been
>> discussing Basil Bunting (who said "there is no
>> excuse for literary
>> criticsm"), a healthy suspicion of academia seems
>> only in order. Since
>> most of us are, in one regard or another, academics,
>> suspicion of this
>> suspicion should also be appropriate.
>> *However* I have to tell you that the material on
>> this list for the last
>> few months has given me no cause to disagree with
>> Pound or Bunting's
>> statements. It seems there have been infinite
>> queries regarding
>> secondary material, obscure biographical facts,
>> etc.. etc....
>> AND LITTLE OR NOTHING ABOUT THE CANTOS!!!!!!!
>> Of course some of the gossip's interesting. And
>> secondary material is
>> not only valuable but necessary ( vide Makin,
>> Kenner, Davie, et al), but
>> the brilliance of that secondary material is that it
>> *HELPS WITH THE
>> POEM*....
>> I will propose three topics of conversation *On The
>> Cantos*, which I
>> hope that even those annoyed by this message might
>> respond to. Should
>> this poemaphobia continue, should we continue to act
>> like nervous
>> teenagers hemming and hawing at the sideline of the
>> dance-floor, I shall
>> cancel my subscription to the list, shut of this
>> damn box and get back
>> to READING THE CANTOS. In good internet will,
>> however, I should say that
>> I hope I don't have to.
>>
>> Topics
>>
>> 1. The relation between the tradition of English
>> Common Law (Coke, Magna
>> Charta mentioned in the Pisan Cantos, etc) and The
>> American Revolution
>> in the Cantos. Davie thinks its bosh, that Pound
>> falls prey to the trap
>> of Whig history. Agree or disagree?
>>
>> 2. Nicolo D'Este as factive (anti-factive)
>> character, in opposition or
>> apposition to the way Pound presents Sigusmundo. How
>> does D'Este's mad
>> speech and hallucinations( see Cantos 20 and 21)
>> prefigure later events
>> in the Cantos. Anyone hear it echoing in the Pisan
>> Cantos or afterwards?
>>
>> and
>>
>> 3. (A non Cantos question!) What do we think of the
>> *tone* of Pound's
>> Propertius. I think everyone agrees by now on the
>> importance of this
>> winning poem, but Robert Lowell for instance said
>> that while he loved
>> POund's poem, he hears Pr.'s voice as a graver,
>> proto-Christian
>> sufferer. Is the parallel between early 20th century
>> Britain and
>> decadence Rome as forced as Davie thinks the one
>> between 17th c. England
>> and 18th century America is?....
>>
>> Ok, there we go. I apologize for taking up extra
>> space, but hope these
>> very basic questions might make the list more
>> interesting for those of
>> us who do enjoy poetry.
>>
>> Peter Campion
>>
>
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>-------------------------------------
>E-mail: [log in to unmask]
>Date: 7/27/99
>Time: 6:34:13 PM
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Tempus loquendi,
        tempus tacendi.
"modern dress for your statue.
                 I consider this canal,
if practicable, as a very important work.
                T.J. to  General Washington, 1787,
...no slaves north of Maryland district...
...flower found in  Connecticut that vegetates when suspended in air...
....screw more effectual if placed below surface of water.
                Ezra Pound, Canto 31
 
 
 
Las die Lasagne weiter fliegen!