Robert:
 
Since most netters on this mailing list know little about Confucius, I think it would be more interesting to
introduce some basic ideas of Confucianism than to conclude how negative it could be. For those who like Confucius,
this seems unfair. Anyway, Confucianism is not religion and we can share our opinion very openly,  in the same way
as we are talking about Bill Clinton.
 
Again, Lun-Yu is a short essay (a few hours to read) and everybody can get her/his own mind easily.
 
Peter Bi
http://www.card4you.com
 
Robert Kibler wrote:
 
>      I would say that Pound was greatly concerned for the human condition, and so a Humanist.
> But he was at least double-minded in his Humanism--a term that really is as abstract as is freedom, I think.
>  On the one hand, Pound believed in the need for a great opening up of boundaries, principles,
> freedoms. On the other, he clearly believed in demarcating boundaries, borders, principles, freedoms.
> In this way, he was like most of us--only all of his intellectual motion towards this or that extreme is
> recorded, live, in his prose and cantos.
>    Confucianism likewise contains many precepts that suggest an opening up of the boundaries of
> the social being, and also many precepts that would see the social being as something prescribed by
> traditions, rituals, rules. Like all Eastern philosophies, it is polymorphous--but really, there are
> two strong lines of Confucian development through time. The one is represented by the works
> of Mencius, and are embraced and promoted by the 11th century Neo-Confucians; the other is represented
> by the works of Hsun-tzu, whose Confucian ideas concerning tradition, order, ritual, and a precise definition of
> terminology were embraced and promoted by the Legalists and other conservative groups.
>     Pound most often praised Mencius, but more often followed the conservatism represented by
> Hsun-tzu. Mary Cheadle, in her work on Pound's Confucian translations, notes that someone warned Pound
> of following in the heels of a Confucianism articulated by Hsun-tzu--but as usual, it seems, Pound gave little
> heed. That conservatism has clear links to a despotism in China that has probably caused a sufficient
> amount of human suffering through time to compare it to Nazism and Fascism. Yet for the most part--
> excepting the extremely oppressive period of the Legalists, its doctrines have humanity writ all through them.
> If you set aside Hitler's claim that Jews are not human (to be sure, I am not recommending that anyone do so)
> so does his Mein Kampf--or at least what I have read of it.
>
> >>> K Stevens <[log in to unmask]> 12/09 2:33 PM >>>
> I thought that Pound was interested in Confucianism because the ideal
> Confucian was like a humanist.  Like Sigismundo, Confucians wanted to
> participate in the political, artistic, and religious rituals of their
> time.  Caring for the family brought about political prosperity.
> Similar in some ways to Plato's Republic?
>
> One of the most significant things about Pound and his Cantos is that
> the artist should not ignore politics, that the politician should not
> ignore economics, that the economist should read poetry.  Sorry for
> this oversimplification, but I would like to know more about Pound's
> possible humanism and its relationship to his interpretation of
> Confucianism?
>
> Many thanks,
> Kristen Stevens
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