Kate,...just that better than anyone...and especially in the famous
"stopping by woods"... with the average-everydayness of speech... he
captures the exact heideggerian phenomenological mood, the exact ek-stasis,
the clearing that is the illumination of being, its temporality,  the
circumambient nihil, and the crowning amor fati, the resolute apropriation,
embrace, of being in the knowing that existence is being-toward-death...a
courage-to-be vastly diffferent from and beyond the conventional romantical
or hamlet-esque?   ...and if anything the courier-n-ives imagery heightens
the "queerness" of ontological illumination, of difference,...eh?...it still
seems to me the pretentious modernist attempts at this same (post-modern)
thematic, as eliot's quartets, don't carry it off near so well?  ...tho,
spose, all probably sounds rather jargon-ish and dated now to generations
never experienced the being born again in sartre & co.

luck with yer project,
bob


bob

----- Original Message -----
From: Kate Cone <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: Imagism and Joyce


> Necrophilia? What necrophilia? Jeez, we miss so much here in the
hinterlands
> of Maine...
>
> Kate
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bob scheetz" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 11:38 AM
> Subject: Re: Imagism and Joyce
>
>
> > Richard Seddon writes:
> > > With the two set as discussion points, e. e. cummings seems the more
> > > mainline modern to me.  His poetry, even that of the country,  seems
> > urban.
> > > Frost seems throw-back pastoral; almost Georgian.  Much of
> >
> > richard,   ...probably yer right, ...but i've always used much of frost
> for
> > heidegger..."i cannot rub the strangeness from my eyes,"...the
> necrophilia,
> > nso on.
> >
> > bob
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Richard Seddon <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 10:20 AM
> > Subject: Re: Imagism and Joyce
> >
> >
> > > Kate:
> > >
> > > With the two set as discussion points, e. e. cummings seems the more
> > > mainline modern to me.  His poetry, even that of the country,  seems
> > urban.
> > > Frost seems throw-back pastoral; almost Georgian.  Much of Frost's
> > Imagery,
> > > like some of H.D., is of the countryside.  Of course as someone has
said
> > the
> > > Pastoral is about the primitive urges of the Urban so maybe Frost is
> > > primitive modern?  :>)  In all seriousness I would suppose that a
paper
> > > could be developed along the lines of Frost detailing, through
> > Pastoralism,
> > > a rejection of the decayed modern Urb.  (Maybe it has already been
done)
> > > Pound, who relished the Urb, would not probably agree but maybe Eliot
> > would.
> > >
> > > Marianne Moore's images (note: little "i")  of animals, she is an
> > > objectivist like Robert Creeley not a strict Imagist, might be
> profitable.
> > > You might also look at the "Amygism" of Amy Lowell, what Pound thought
> > > Imagism gone astray,  in order to see vitiation of the idea.
> > >
> > > Are you interested in Imagism or Vorticism?  For an excellent
discussion
> > of
> > > the Ideogramic method, which necessarily has a lot of good info on
> > Imagism,
> > > see,  _Ideogram, History of a Poetic Method_ by Laszlo K. Gefin.
> Pound's
> > > work on the Fenolosa papers would probably be of interest also.
> > >
> > > Be sure to keep your big "I" Images seperate from your little "i"
> images.
> > >
> > > I don't think the ex-pat idea would work well.  William Carlos
Williams
> > and
> > > Richard Aldington would be hard to work into such a scheme.
> > >
> > > Rick Seddon
> > > McIntosh, NM, USA
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Kate Cone" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 5:48 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Imagism and Joyce
> > >
> > >
> > > > Tim:
> > > >
> > > > I've been reading C's poetry and bio's for over 30 years. In fact,
as
> a
> > > > result of my research and inquiries to Jay Parini at Middlebury, a
> Frost
> > > > scholar and biographer, I've been asked to write the Cummings
article
> > for
> > > > the Oxford Encyclopedia of American Literature, which Parini is
> editing.
> > > > (wheeee!!!)
> > > >
> > > > Frost I knew as all American students do -- the anthologized poems.
I
> > > loved
> > > > the imagery, but didn't "get" how deep they were then. But one
little
> > poem
> > > > hit me a different way:
> > > >
> > > > The Secret Sits
> > > >
> > > > We dance 'round a ring and suppose.
> > > > The secret sits in the middle and knows.
> > > >
> > > > Frost
> > > >
> > > > ****
> > > >
> > > > seeker of truth
> > > >
> > > > follow no path
> > > > all paths lead where
> > > >
> > > > truth is here
> > > >
> > > > Cummings
> > > >
> > > > ****
> > > >
> > > > At first I thought of this type of poem as having a Zen influence,
but
> > on
> > > > further investigation I learned that both C and F were tremendously
> > > > influenced by Emerson, whose essay "Circles" pretty much pegs the
> notion
> > > of
> > > > coming back: "I keep and pass and turn again." (Brahma).
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, the nature poetry of C and F are the most alike in that
> regard.
> > > > Where Pound comes in: he was among some other influential poets met
in
> > > > England and was instrumental in getting Frost's first two books
> > > > well-reviewed in England, essentially "making" Frost the first and
> > perhaps
> > > > only best-selling American poet of the 20th century. As a young poet
> at
> > > > Harvard, Cummings' notebooks show a keen interest in being part of
the
> > > > imagist movement.
> > > >
> > > > I guess what I'm asking for are any thoughts at all about Pound's
> > > influence
> > > > and/or dealings with either Frost or Cummings. And with regard to
Mr.
> > > > Savage's comment about Frost's poor treatment of Pound -- if you
could
> > > > elaborate further on that/those incident/s, it would give me more
> > > insight --
> > > > was Frost abandoning a poet who helped  him in order to "lay low"
from
> > > > controversy? This will further my theory that Frost "invented"
himself
> > as
> > > a
> > > > Yankee farmer poet and didn't want to rock any boat by being
involved
> > > > (publicly) in the politics of the day. Cummings was much more "in
your
> > > > face."
> > > >
> > > > Thanks!
> > > >
> > > > Kate
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Tim Romano" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 6:15 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: Imagism and Joyce
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Kate,
> > > > > What do you think their work has in common? I see no similarity,
> > though
> > > I
> > > > > must admit that I don't know cummings's work inside and out.
> > > > > Tim Romano
> > > > >
> > > > > Kate Cone wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >I am writing my masters thesis on how E.E. Cummings and Robert
> > Frost's
> > > > > >poetry are related.
> > > > >
> > > >
> >