Ahsan,
I am willing to "forget culture altogether" (that's what I meant by
"cross-cultural", i.e. not tied to any one culture) except perhaps in the
way archetypes are *represented* in a culture's myths. With respect to
"individual patterns", I'd quibble with you, and say that the
patterns-in-relation (i.e. to each other) deserve our attention. I'd also
agree with the idea behind your "fuel" metaphor.
Tim


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ahsan Ali" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 10:39 AM
Subject: the green world


> Tim, when you speak of archetypes, forget culture altogether; forget
> geometry, too. In archtypes, it's the individual Patterns, and not the
One,
> entire construction, that we must dissect. The construction is already
> dissected, thanks to all the jungs and the freuds.
>
> In regrd to what you wrote before [With his discovery of the archetypal
> nature of the Self]: What Pound discovered was not just the fact that
> patterns direct us, but that there's something that fuels the patterns.
> Call it "the green world" if you like.
>
> And he rejoiced.
>
> -Ahsan
>
> At 06:31 AM 9/11/00 -0400, you wrote:
> >Bob,
> >
> >When I mention The Archetypal (as I have done in several contexts over
the
> >past few months) you think in terms of socio-cultural paradigms. This is
not
> >what I mean by the term. Also, an "assumed persona" --where ego scriptor
> >writes "in the voice" of some legendary person--  is not what I mean by
the
> >archetypal, though it is possible that the person whose voice and role
are
> >assumed represents an archetype.  What I have in mind when using the term
is
> >the immutable cross-cultural erotic geometry that brings Persephone to
> >Hades, Narcissus to Echo, foam-born Venus up from the sea into which the
> >blood of her father's castrated genitals had fallen, et cetera. I'm
talking
> >about the soul's double-helix, if you will.  It means we belong to the
green
> >world. The green world does not belong to us.
> >Tim Romano
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> tim,
> >>     i can see the various personnae ep assumed qua
> >> ego scriptor; but, can't see anything archetypal
> >> ...as for example whitman's american adam,
> >> or emerson's jeremiah.
> >> how do you mean ep's "archetypal self"?
> >> another american adam?
> >>
> >> bob
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Tim Romano <[log in to unmask]>
> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2000 7:39 AM
> >> Subject: No place of grace
> >>
> >>
> >> > Bob,
> >> > With his discovery of the archetypal nature of the Self
> >> > Pound progressed from Solipsism into Nature and Creation
> >> > to rediscover 'the green world' thereby completing the circle.
> >> > This universal place of grace he saw threatened
> >> >    by the relentless mechanization of human labor
> >> >    by the rapacious exploitation of natural resource
> >> >    by the endless barrage of soul-less advertisements
> >> >           and other projections whose goal was destruction
> >> >             of the inner-sanctum
> >> >              that we may become insatiable hedonistic consumers
> >> >                  who show up for work on time
> >> >                  and pay every tax
> >> >                  and cheerfully submit our selves to the machine.
> >> >
> >> > Fascism was salvific for Pound for the paradoxical reasons you imply.
> >The
> >> > directed will seemed indeed a manful remedy for the smothering
machine.
> >> > Fascism projected an image of the nobility of the artisan versus the
> >> > dehumanized slave-labor-units of soviet socialism.  It seemed to hold
> >the
> >> > promise of no more red-tape ... a government that would govern least,
> >> > organized around the collective will of the skilled trades. Imagine
how
> >> > powerful its attraction for a liberty-techne'  freak like Pound.
> >> >
> >> > Tim Romano
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>