JB wrote:
>
>those who've studied Freud or Jung will see such a conclusion as being . .
>.
I am not sure from your remark whether or not you claim to have studied
Freud or Jung, or whether you think it might be worthwhile to apply a
Freudian or Jungian analysis of any type to Pound analysis. Could you
explain your view on this matter?
>tendency to long-winded and extraneous responses . . .
Is not any part of your response extraneous to the discussion of Pound? If
the answer to that question is "no," then I shall beg your pardon, and
strive to follow your example of mind singularly focused on the pertinent
issues. If the answer is "yes, occasionally I have strayed from the topic",
then I say, let us all be forgiving of each other, and permit one another
any number of digressions. After all, no serious harm could result from any
response, however "extraneous" it might seem to another person.
Also, I am not sure if "long-winded" is an apt metaphor for internet
postings, since there is no "wind" in virtual reality. Nor is there
anything about the nature of the medium which compels you to read my posts.
If you do, it is your own choice. Since you DO choose to read them, it
seems, I would like to pose a question.
If you disagree with me on the isssues, perhaps you could say why? As it
stands now, I am unable to understand your posts to really say much of
anything other than "I disagree," the rest signifying a large exclamation
point. Perhaps you could quote Pound, or Jung, or Freud, or give some
evidence to sustain your view.
I would also truly be interested in your answer to the question as regards
your opinion about the most exemplary vanguards or democratic movements in
history. I don't mind repeating the question several times. I am curious
to see how (and if you will) reply.
>a hatred of Pound that mirrors
>your own relationship with a particular family member.
>
I leave it others aside from you to judge to what degree either your posts
or mine are governed by any indication of hatred. But hatred, in either you
or myself, or anyone else, is not necessarily the issue. POUND's hatred,
however, may be worth discussing. Recall that he said his study of
economics was prompted by hatred of A. Mellon, and other capitalists.
What has capital done that I should hate Andy Mellon
as a symbol or as reality? . . .
I have grown, if not fat under the existing order,
at least dangerously near it. I have no personal grievance.
They tried to break me and didn't or couldn't, at any
rate, chance and destiny, etc., gave me a fairly good break.
I was tough enough to escape or to stand the pressure.
Personally. Why then, have I blood lust? (SP, 29).
[The quote is discussed at length at
http://www.geocities.com/weienlin/econ.html ]
>the question of Pound's mental condition after being held in a cage exposed
>to the elements under the fear that he was going to be shot is conveniently
>ignored so that you might brandish another Hitler quote as an another nail
>in
>Pound's fascist coffin.
I do not ignore the fact of Pound's imprisonment. The question is, what do
you make of his equation of Joan of Arc with Hitler? You can attack me for
pointing to this quote of course. But after you have done that, perhaps you
could explain what it signifies? Surely you do not think that Pound's
support of Hitler simply appeared at this moment. My assertion is that his
equation of Hitler and Joan of Arc may reveal something positive in our
understanding of Pound, which may not be revealed in other statements Pound
made about Hitler.
>there's no need
>to keep repeating the same conclusions over and over . . .
I don't believe this particular suggestion---- that Pound's equation of
Hitler and Joan of Arc may reveal something about the relation between the
Pound's notion of the male and female, as consituted in the psychical
connection between the animus and the anima (in Jungian terms)---- has been
discussed before on this list, or at least, recently. Certainly it has not
been repeated over and over. And while there is no need to repeat things on
this list, they are often repeated, by you, myself, and by others. No
guilt, shame, or stigma need be attached to any particular repetition.
In any case, I invite you to be more specific in your analysis of Pound,
more thorough, and more to the point. Your attacks on me personally may
have a great deal of value, if interpreted by others as relevant to the
specifics of the study of literary, philosophical, and political issues
under analysis. I might also stress my request that you use more
quotations, more excerpts from other philosophers, critics, and poets to
strengthen your position. Please feel free to make any suggestions as
regards the methodology which I am using to get my points across.
You might wish to comment on the following quote. I think you and I will
both agree that Pound was NOT a holocaust denier. He said, we are told, when
first hearing of the holocaust, "There were no gas ovens in Italy" (or words
to that effect.
Pound's approach to the post-Holocaust era was varied, but it never
amounted, as far as I know to a denial of the Holocaust itself. One
approach was to suggest that he was against Hitler (which was patently
false).
According to Carpenters biography, in the post-war years,
Pound now pretended that he had been against Hitler all along. "NO, ten
thousand times NO" he wrote to MacLEish in 1956. "it does not depend on my
view of Hilter. I take it we are agreed that Adolf Hitler should have beeen
STOPPED" Yet he did nothing whaever to dissuade John Jasper from drifting
toward Nazi views. When Noel Stock met Kasper years later he thought him "
a poor waif who'd been exploited by Ezra."
So in answer to the previous question about whether any individuals have
every used Pound's work and views to aid the spread of fascist propaganda,
there are two cases which might fit into this pattern. Kasper and
Overholster have been pointed to as impressionable souls who were inspired
by Pound in these post war years to pursue the fascist philosophy in their
own social lives.
Regards,
Wei
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