CM wrote:

>      Wei, did you know that the fasces flank both sides of the U.S.
>Senate?

I am aware that the fasces is on the seal of the Senate, juxtaposed with a
"red cap of liberty" (see information below).  How do you interpret this
information in connection with Pound's use of the fasces?  There are a
number of ways you could go with this.  What line of reasoning do you want
to follow, and what conclusion would you draw from that fact?

A liberal defender of the Senate might argue as follows:  The significance
of the fasces on the Senate seal is different than the significance of the
symbol for Italian fascism.  Read the excerpt from the official web page of
the US Senate:


                  Olive
                   and oak branches symbolizing peace
                   and strength grace the sides of the
                   shield, and a red liberty cap and
                   crossed **fasces** represent freedom and
                   authority. Blue beams of light emanate
                   from the shield. Surrounding the seal is
                   the legend, "United States Senate."
                   The seal is affixed to impeachment
                   documents and resolutions of consent
                   to international treaties.


In this case,  "authority," (as represented by the fasces) is in the hands
of the Senate, as a legislative check on the executive, as the seal is used
for impeachments, and to show that the President cannot conclude treaties
without the consent of the Senate.  The juxtaposition of the fasces with the
"red cap of liberty" serves to distinguish the original more authoritarian
use of the symbol by the Romans.  Seen in its historical context the US
Senate's use of the fasces MIGHT be seen as an advance, in that "authority"
is tempered by committment to Liberty.  (Mussolini and Pound's interest in
the symbol is reactionary, however, because it symbolizes unchecked
authority.   Neither Mussolini or Pound show any interest in any system of
checks and balances, or in a democratic assembly, elected by the people, as
an institution in which Supreme Authority should be vested.  Both are
interested in the renovation of imperial Rome.  Pound wants the symbol of
the fasces made equivalent with the Hsin character and the absolute
Confucian monarch associated with its use in the Confucian classic.)


A less sympathetic view of the role of fasces symbol in the US Senate would
simply say:    The symbol of authority is an indication of the latent
fascism and authoritarianism inherent in the current American system, which
more resembles the Roman Senatorial elite system than it does a true
democracy suitable for a modern people.  Many might wonder whether the
Senate (which in many ways resembles a House of Lords) should continue to
exist.  The more democratic founding fathers, like Benjamin Franklin,
opposed the existence of a Senate (which they felt would simply represent
the interests of the richer classes, and override the general will of the
people).

Which of these views makes the most sense to you, or do you have another
view?

And since Pound specifically equates the symbol with Mussolini's "continuous
revolution", or fascist revolution--- and not with any notion of a check on
authoritarian power (or check on executive power)--- what relevance does the
presence of the symbol on the Senate seal have for our discussion of Pound?



Full description of the Senate Seal:
http://www.senate.gov/learning/brief_16.html


                                Senate Seal

                   The seal of the Senate, based on the
                   Great Seal of the United States,
                   includes a scroll inscribed with E
                   Pluribus Unum floating across a shield
                   with thirteen stars on top and thirteen
                   vertical stripes on the bottom. Olive
                   and oak branches symbolizing peace
                   and strength grace the sides of the
                   shield, and a red liberty cap and
                   crossed fasces represent freedom and
                   authority. Blue beams of light emanate
                   from the shield. Surrounding the seal is
                   the legend, "United States Senate."
                   The seal is affixed to impeachment
                   documents and resolutions of consent
                   to international treaties. It also appears
                   on presentation copies of Senate
                   resolutions recognizing appointments,
                   commendations, and notable
                   achievements.


Regards,

Wei


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