charles moyer <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Subject: Pound's "misogyny"
>
>Wei,
>     You forgot this bit of evidence for your continued and persistent
>indictment of Pound:
>
>            "No instinct has survived in her
>            Older than those her grandmother
>            Told her would fit her station."
>      (caution it may go the other way)
>
>     I will not answer for the ladies of the list, but what do you think
>Marianne Moore, H.D.,  Alice Corbin Henderson, Olga , and etc. etc. would
>say to you?

The answer to that question would be highly speculative, and perhaps
irrelevant.  I am more interested in what women on this list might say
----or in what men on this list might say--- in light of their own research
and perceptions regarding the question of woman's rights.  For instance what
might you say?


>
>                 Today's quote:  "Democracy is the art of running the
>circus
>from the monkey cage."
>
>H.L. Mencken
>CDM


Does the presentation of such quotes indicate your attitude toward
democracy?  Statements like those of Mencken are troubling.  Not because
they are startling and insightful, but rather the reverse.  To claim that
democracy is a circus, or that people are mere animals is neither original
nor accurate, nOR is it very useful as a metaphor.


Such a metaphor as Mencken's is troubling not because it is an apt
description of democracy (though it does point to certain allegedly
disorderly aspects of such a system).  Does such a metaphor imply that other
more oRderly systems (or systems which have a facade of of order, such as
Mussolini's dictatorship) are preferable.  Of course there was little order
in Fascist Germany or Italy, in the most meaningful sense, because whatever
opinion the "leader" has in any given month SUDDENLY becomes the accepted
view.  End of discussion.  The fascist political order is much more like a
circus than a democracy, because the ringmaster (or fascist leader) startles
his audience with unexpected actions, and provokes predetermined responses.
Or because, the circus master has all the initiative, while the audience
"receives" the entertainment, laughingly.  (Of course in the fascist state
one does not laugh out loud in the streets, however humorous the display of
buffonery

Let us recall that the slogan "bread and circuses" was the slogan of
IMPERIAL ROME, after which Fascist Italy was patterned (it was not the
slogan of Republican Rome).  If we extend the metaphor, then how does it
relate to the form of government Pound favored?  Given that few figures in
history conjur up the absurd image of an unfettered clownish circus master
as Mussolini, how should we frame the image?


"Fascism is the art of running the circus from the LION'S cage," or more to
the point,

"Fascism is the art of running the circus by cramming all the audience
members into the lion's cage."   ??

Those who have actually lived under totalitarian systems may be somewhat
less inclined to sympathize or defend Pound's views on this matter.

Allow me to put the question very bluntly.  How many people on this list
believe in democracy at all, either in theory or as it is practiced in the
US?  And how many believe that Pound was essentially right in preferring the
fascist governments of Italy and Germany (and Confucian governments in
Imperial China) to Western European democracies?

I ASK EVERYONE WHO IS ABLE AND WILLING TO RESPOND:

HOW MUCH OF THE SYMPATHY FOR POUND ON THIS LIST IS DUE TO GREAT SYMPATHY
WITH HIS POLITICAL VIEWS?

Regards,

Wei

PS

Tim Romano <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Wei -- you might also want to contemplate Pound's references to "eunuchs"
>--
>eunuchs frequently occur in Pound's writing in the context of corrupt
>judgment or impassable bureaucracies.
>Tim Romano

I can definitely see the relevance, and of course this is a complex matter
in Chinese history, which Pound has picked up on.

But I would like to know your response to the basic question.  How do you
yourself respond to the issue of sexism in Pound's outlook.  Is there any
merit in his way of viewing women, is it excusable, does it deserve
condemnation or criticism, or is some other approach needed?



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