Esteemed Pawel,

I apologize for not writing a reply sooner to your kind and gracious note.
I wrote a detailed reply, but an error caused me to lose the post.

The gist of my response was that your post was in no way offensive, nor was
any apology needed.  I agree that cultural differences and the limitations
of this medium can easily result in misunderstanding, as has occurred all to
often on this list.  No one is at fault.  Or as Chinese say sometimes, "No
blame; no shame".

You asked about Chinese culture, and in my rather long answer I suggested
that the best ways to access Chinese culture at present was through films,
such as Zhang Yimou's "Raise the Red Lantern," which has won many
international awards.

For non-Chinese, the easiest way to access Chinese culture is through works
in this order:  Film, Philosophy, History, and lastly, literature.  Film
first, for obvious reasons (Chinese films such as Raise the Red Lantern are
often based on novels, and presented in ways which simplify many of the
obscure cultural referents).  Philosophy, next, because it speaks of
universal principles which often transcend cultural barriers.  Then history,
because, universal ethical principles are also involved, and their
application to particular contexts is illustrated.  Literature last, because
the particular experiences depicted in Chinese literature are not easily
understood without reference to factors contained in Chinese history and
philosophy.  Most Chinese literature is about the life of the individual as
it is lived in reaction to or relation with the surrounding culture.  These
are gross generalizations, but they have some validity, I think, from the
non-Chinese viewpoint.

I recommend for the modern reader, a book called "Chinese Modernism".

"Chinese modernism in the era of reforms : cultural fever, avant-garde
fiction, and the new Chinese cinema" / by Xudong Zhang.

(Zhang is the surname).

This is one of the greatest books available in English on the subject of
Chinese cultural questions.

In philosophy, above all the TAO TE CHING.

In history, any of the works of Szuma Chien (Sort of the Herodotus, or the
Plutarch of Chinese History).

In literature, Travels to the West (available, in part, in an Arthur Waley
translation, under the title "Monkey").  This is a highly comic picaresque,
epic satire of many features of society in China, very anti-authoritarian
and irreverant, though its undelying ethic is essentially Buddhist.

I said more in the lost post, but these are the essential points.

Regards,

Wei


>From: Pawel Karwowski <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
>To: - Ezra Pound discussion list of the University of Maine
><[log in to unmask]>,        En Lin Wei <[log in to unmask]>,
>[log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Give us an interpretation of Pound's Poetry (please)
>Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 13:12:20 +0200
>
>On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, En Lin Wei wrote:
>
> > >Pawel wrote:
> > >Wei, I can recommend you a book written by Hugh Kenner. Title is "The
>Pound
> > >Era", there is above 600 pages and it is worth its price.
> >
> > I have already read that work.  Thank you for the recommendation,
>though.  I
> > can recommend a few for you if you like.
>
>My sincere apologies Wei. I should not to write like that. Anyway in
>Kenner's
>book there are a very good analyses of of the sound- poetry (provencal &
>english
>mostly) and I meant exactly this chapter.
>In my opinion you can have really serious problems to pick up how melopoeia
>works, because of cultural differences.
>As we all know chinese written characters are based on "the paintings" (the
>images) and every image has certain MEANING so that can be the basic point
>of
>misunderstanding between us. Music sometimes is just music.
>Another thing is that this kind of poetry is very uncommon today. I can
>find
>nice music in Eaven Boland, Charels Olson poetry. In polish I prefer Roman
>Honet - who is right now only 26 years old. . . .
>
>
> > Pawel:
> > >Pound proposed many, many years ago something strongly different. He
> > >rediscovered Provance, he discovered China & Orient for Europeans &
> > >Americans.
> > >Provance & China in his verses work together like a  sound & image in
>the
> > >movies (kind of "movie poetry" isn't it ? ).
> > >
> > Wei:
> > I have a little problem with people saying so-and-so "discovered" China,
>as
> > if the people living there are non-existent (Columbus "discovered
>America,"
> > Marco Polo "discovered "the Orient", and such statements seem a little
>bit
> > condescending).  I know you did not intend it in a neo-colonialist
>sense;
> > but the choice of words is important.
>
>We did'nt have any colonies in our history.
>But I can tell you what I meant by quoting Pound's "croissant's era" - it
>was
>my joke. I am rather sure that this sort of intercultural communication we
>try
>to realize right now, even on this list, on the beginning of the Era of
>Internet
>is destined to fail. . . .

> >
> > Look at how Pound tries to use historical material in the Cantos.
>Pound,
> > rather oddly, tries to write "Confucian poetry" finding inspiration in
> > historical classics and the Analects.  I would submit that Pound's
>poetry
> > is, in one very important sense, very un-Chinese, because there is
>really no
> > such thing as "Confucian poetry", other than in the sense of political
> > slogans and traditional moralisms (Great Chinese poetry is almost always
> > Taoist or Buddhist, and must be, to avoid being anything other than
> > government propaganda.)
>
>You are for sure an expert in that area, so your conclusion seems to me
>highly
>interesting. Pound in FORM - chinese and in the MEANING - un -chinese. Do I
>understand correctly ?
>

Yes, in this sense:  "modern" in poetic form; reactionary in content.
Confucian, ideologically; which is a virtual impossibility in Chinese
culture, since all great Chinese poetry is Buddhist, Taoist, or against the
Confucian grain.

>Pawel:
> >  It wouldn't be wrong for The Cantos if HE would put something about
> > >Yashihoco no kami, Nukawa-hime or Susaribime no mikoto. (Eventually
>about
> > >Angelus Silesius or Martin Opitz). But even in this final form it is
> > >possible to
> > >discuss The Cantos as an example of "cross-cultural book", certainly
>most
> > >interesting for American and Chinese readers . . .
> >
>Wei:
> > I concur.  In fact, it is the cross-cultural aspect of Pound's work that
>I
> > find most interesting.  I have read a great deal of the Kojiki, and find
>it
> > interesting from an anthropoligical, literary, and socio-political
>angle.
> > Pound would have done well to use it.  The Kojiki could have helped him
> > fortify the myth of Japanese superiority, and given him food for the
> > championship of the Japanese conquest of China and the creation of the
> > Greater Co-prosperity Sphere.  The point is that once you have
>established
> > that Pound is one of the great English speaking poets of the twentieth
> > century (or even the "greatest", if you prefer), you are still left with
>the
> > task of interpreting his work.
>
>Some questions Wei:
>
>How many people on this list have heard about "Kojiki" - (that's what I
>mean
>"croissant's era") ?
>In the former soviet Georgia they have really excellent
>poetry (as they say) but who on this planet knows georgian language but
>Georgians ?
>Davies put a statement that Tibetans never had a poet like Shakespeare but
>2
>days ago I've read a book that in 15 cent. there was one (I forget his last
>name). What was his name ?
>And finally : couple of years ago I've read excellent sentence in a
>newspaper.
>Someone simply has put: "is it not suprising that the most of greatest
>writers
>in the history of this planet comes from countries which were empires ? -
>the
>question mark on the end. Really there was literature in Kartagina as well
>-
>but who cares about that - should we all  know the Romans only ?
>
>Wei:
> >Certainly Pound composed beautiful passages
> > of poetry; ...
>  ...How do we interpret "economic poetry" in the
> > light of commitments to Mussolini, Hitler, Imperial Rome, and Confucian
> > authoritarianism which are INCORPORATED into the poetry?  What is
>Pound's
> > religion, and how are his acts of spiritual communion embodied in the
> > poetry?   Can  certain aspects of his personal religion be separated
>from
> > his belief that the masses should participate in very hierarchical,
>socially
> > oppressive types of religious organizations?   Of course these are only
>a
> > few of the questions posed by his works.  Many other questions are
>possible,
> > and many other issues need to be dealt with.   Simply saying the poetry
>is
> > beautiful does not help us interpet it.  Calling it "the music of words"
> > does not help us interpret it.  Who can say what music APART from words
>(a
> > Beethoven Quartet, for instance) actually MEANS?  But Pound's poetry
> > contains words, and these words MEAN something.   Please INTERPRET the
> > poetry.
>
>Pas. I am exhausted right now. For a week or two I will try to write
>something.
>It is not easy.
>Thank you.
>
>Regards
>
>Pawel
>Wroclaw /Breslau 10.07.2000

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