Mark Sonnier wrote:
>I read with some interest about the Redskins' tradition of scraping up
>some ice to take back to Ohio after a road win.  Can anyone explain the
>origins of this practice?  Is this common elsewhere?
 
It is actually not that old of a tradition.  It started with the arrival of
George Gwozdecky, who (ironically) was one of Ron Mason's assistants at MichiganState.  I think he picked it up from Florida State (which someone else here
mentioned), who tends to take a piece of turf (I'm assuming grass fields here
only) from a road football win and places it in a cemetary (someone more learnedwith this tradition may be able to explain it better.
 
As far as I'm aware, no other school does this.  Gwozdecky is now at Denver,
but I don't believe he took the "tradition" with him.
 
Keith Instone wrote:
>>If the Miami players were getting their ice chippings in a corner of the
>>rink while the teams were leaving after the games for the lockerrooms,
>>that's an entirely different issue.
 
>That's how the Redskins took their ice from the BGSU Ice Arena after
>a win last year. Pretty harmless; no cheering, no taunting.
 
Maybe that's how it happened at BGSU.  That's not what happened at Munn Ice
Arena on Friday or on Saturday or the other times that I've had the unfortunate
luck to watch Miami beat MSU at Munn.
 
For those who haven't been to Munn, the players' benches are on opposite sides
of the rink (MSU's bench is on the north side with the penalty boxes and
scorer's bench; the visiting team is on the south side, where the press box is).
After the game and the traditional handshake, the Miami players will gather
just below the blue line in front of their bench, next to the tunnel that leads
to their dressing room.  They form a circle surrounding the two goaltenders
(usually, it could be someone else designated by the team, but I've always seen
the goaltenders do it), who will skate to and fro, getting as many ice shavings
as possible.  After that is done, one of the assistants will come out and gatherthe shavings in a canister, which I presume are carried back to Oxford and
stored in a freezer somewhere.
 
Whether that's what they do at other arenas, I don't know.  But all the times
it has happened at Munn, that is how it has occurred.  Within 3-5 minutes after
the game has ended, while some of the fans are still in the building.  (In
fact on Saturday, the PA announcer hadn't announced the three stars of the
game before the "melee" broke out.)  Since I usually stay to make sure my notes
from the game are straight, I've witnessed it TOO many times.  Saturday the
Spartans took exception to it.  To fill in a fact that I didn't know before
(from Steve Klein's article in today's Lansing State Journal [thanks, Steve!]),
many of the Spartans during the post-game handshake, among them senior assistantcaptain Steve Guolla, asked the Miami players not to scalp the ice after the
game.  The result was six players suspended.
 
Also according to today's LSJ (I think it was Neil Koepke's article, but don't
quote me on that), CCHA commisioner Bill Began has pretty much decided not to
take disciplinary action against any of the coaches (though Dave Lassonde could
be a leading candidate) and while not directly forbidding Miami from performing
the tradition, has sort of off-handedly said that he would prefer that
Mazzoleni stop the tradition.  His opinion of the scalping tradition was not
favorable.
 
John Kohlstrand wrote:
>>>As for ``bush league,'' the Spartans are members of the same league. In
>>>the grand scheme of things, all of college hockey is pretty bush league.
 
>>I think you might find a number of people here who would disagree with that.
 
>You mean bush league as a pejorative. I don't. ``Bush'' is slang for small
>or rural.
 
I intended "bush league" to mean a, IMHO, juvenile act.  If you took it to
mean small or rural, that wasn't my intent.  "Bush league" where I come from
refers to an attitude, not an indication of the size of the city in which the
team plays.
 
>I see the Miami practice as a non-destructive, quirky tradition of a fun
>hockey league. It sounds like Michigan State had more reasons to consider
>themselves dissed after the final whistle than someone stealing their ice.
 
I suggest you read what I wrote above, concerning how the incident took place.
From Keith's account of what happened at BG, they are not the same.
 
Whether MSU had more reasons to consider themselves "dissed" is somewhat
obvious.  Losing your third home game in a row ain't fun.  But then to have the
other team (not their fans, but the other team) rub salt in the wound doesn't
make it any better.  I don't totally approve of what the Michigan State players
did, but under the circumstances I understand it.  The statements of many of
the players indicates that.  To quote Steve Suk (from today's State News articleby Brad Gardner): "'...A lot of us older guys didn't like it.  I think it is
disrespectful to Michigan State hockey and the University.  It just got out of
hand, and they would not go off the ice."
 
>The funny thing is, only teams that win a lot seem to win ``with class,''
>as you say. When Miami gets a couple of national championships under their
>belt, maybe they'll afford themselves the luxury of getting some ``class.''
 
No offense, John, but that's BS.  You don't need a national title or two under
your belt to display how to win with "class."  Last year, Ohio State won its
first game EVER in East Lansing, and showed no disrespect to the MSU players
as they were leaving the ice.  And if there's any team in the CCHA that hasn'r
won a lot recently, it's been Ohio State.  Alaska-Fairbanks came in this year
and won the second of a two-game set with the Spartans, and left the ice with-
out disgracing themselves.  And UAF's had a down year.
 
Winning with class is a state of mind.  It has absolutely nothing to do with
whether you've won a lot before or not.  Just like losing with dignity doesn't
come from having lost a lot before or not.  Saturday night, Miami showed no
class in winning and unfortunately, MSU showed no dignity in losing.  Friday
night, only Miami showed they had no class.
 
(As I've stated before, I take nothing away from Miami's play on the ice.  They
work hard, they go after loose pucks, they play solid defense.)
 
>>You don't consider scraping the ice of the opponent to be "poor sportsmanship"?
>>You don't think teams have the right to defend their home rink?  How many
 
>From what? I could see if the Redskins were stealing seats..
 
Symbolically, it's about the same thing...
 
Finally, while I sent an apology to Deron Treadwell personally, let me clarify
that I wasn't trying to attack him personally.  I apologize to those of you
who read my post who may have come away with that impression.  The same goes
for John Kohlstrand, who while it may seem I've been somewhat curse with here
and in earlier posts, I have great respect for.  It is not my intention to
impugn their character (or mine, if I could find some buried somewhere in here
:-)) in this discussion.  Sometimes my more combatitive side takes over a littletoo much...
 
G. M. Finniss
Michigan State University 12-6-3, 17-9-3
WVU '87, UTenn '92, MSU who the hell knows when?